Help with choosing insects

[bmxstreet21]

I read the caresheet (by the way its a great caresheet whoever made it really knows what there talking about.) So anyway, you guys told me mealworms aren't ver nutrisious, so I looked on the caresheet to see what was nutricious. The problem is I don't understand the insect table. Here is a copy of it.

Feeder Moisture % Ash % Fat % Protein % Ca:P
Crickets 69.07 9.9 22.7 11.4 1:9.75
Mealworms 61 1 14 20 1:25
Superworms 59.37 1.2 17.89 17.41 1:18
Waxworms 61.73 1.02 22.19 15.50 1:7
Butterworms 58.54 1.04 5.21 16.20 ?
Silkworms ? 7.4 10.6 63.8 1:2.35
Nightcrawlers 85 1 2 10 ?

What does Moisture % Ash % Fat % Protein % Ca:P mean? And which one do I want the most of in my skink's diet?

[deftones2015]

Silkworms are really good for your bluey. A little expensive but full of calcium etc. Super worms are pretty good too. You can use any feeder you want. Just make sure you gutload. Feed them carrots and greens etc or a commercial gutload. Feed waxworms sparingly though. They're extremely fatty. I use super worms and silkworms mostly here.

[applepiebald]

The chart is telling what percent each animal is composed of. Ex: a cricket is 69.7% moisture, 9.9% ash, 22.7% fat and 11.4% protein. The less "water weight" and fat, and more protein the better. The last number is the Calcium to Phosphate level. Reptiles need a 2:1 ratio I believe.

By the way, ZooMed makes "Can O" products that my skinks (and other lizards) love. They are canned insects that include crickets (both mini and adult), worms, and even snails! Since the insects are already dead, I don't have to worry about feeding the food. The cans last pretty much forever unopened and after opening can last up to a month in the refrigerator. I dust the insects with vitamin and calcium powder (Herptivite and Rep-Cal) before feeding them to the animals.

Both my skinks take them right out of my fingers, but if you have a pickier skink or one who's very use to live food you can wiggle the insects a little in front of the skink's nose to simulate movement. The worms and mini crickets can also be mixed into the fruit or veggies that you offer your skink.

[Lura]

That list looks like it is going in order from least to most nutritious. Butterworms, silkworms, and waxworms are considered very good, and some people around here also feed theirs tomato hornworms. You can find all of these online at mulberryfarms.com and a few other retailers. Of those I have only seen waxworms for sale at the physical reptile specialist/Petsmart near me.

I found the most useful food chart to be the one that is divided into Daily, Weekly, etc. It helps to see what fruits, veggies, and meats are the best to feed. Does anyone have the direct link? This connection causes my computer to freeze when I try to access the caresheet or the main page

[kris21]

I recently had a heap of snails in my yard but i went outside to get some and all the shells are empty....about 20 of em. Anyone know what causes that?
I thought i'd give my boys a treat but came in empty handed.

Kris

[wilsoncc]

These charts of content are (in my opinion) minimally useful. Your final question is key to that - we have a list of precisely measured numbers that have no firm relationship to the animals needs. One obvious missing element is what fraction of the insect is actually digestible - wings for example generally just pass through, but count as protein. Another missing element is gut contents, which dramatically affects food value. At best you can read them and see that (a) everything is different and (b) the Ca:Ph ratio is clearly skewed toward phosphorus for all of them.

Conclusion: none of them are suitable as an exclusive diet, and therefore a variety of foods must be offered.

Hopefully you already knew that. We don't really know what the daily requirements are for fat and protein, and that is really only measuring at a very gross level - they may have specific mineral and micronutrient requirements that are difficult to measure or detect without long term feeding studies using a prepared diet. We do know that an exclusive cricket or superworm or mealworm diet without supplementation is insufficient for many of the widely kept insectivorous lizards (leopard geckos, chameleons) Some of the feeders in the list (mealworms/superworms/silkworms) tend to be fed a single element diet, which may make them less nutritious than the table suggests.

None of the prey items in the list are there because they are particularly great food for a skink, they are there because they are easy to commercially propagate and therefore available readily to you as a keeper. Fortunately for us, skinks like to eat such a wide variety of things that the particular content of any single prey item is largely irrelevant, as long as you are offering a wide variety of food that includes some items with high calcium content.

To sum up: Don't get hung up on the table. None of them are a staple diet - feed a variety.

Colin

ps. http://doubleds.org/contactus.html has similar info on roaches as well. They are higher in protein, so if you are in the camp that believes protein is better then they are better. I like them for reasons that have nothing to do with the table, but since my skink no longer seems to like them much it doesn't matter what the analysis is.

[Lisa]

The other thing worth considering when thinking of live foods, is what they would actually eat in the wild, because they obviously thrive on that.

It is highly unlikely that a bluetongue would ever eat a silkworm or a superworm or even a cricket in the wild. They are slow moving, ground dwelling animals, so their natural prey would also need to have these characteristics. Snails, worms, grubs and caterpillars, slaters, beetles, native roaches etc. Maybe an occasional cricket or grasshopper or spider or something else fast or jumpy, but not often.

So while silkies and superworms and mealworms and other natural foods readily available at the petshop can be a good source of food and have good ratios, I don't think you should feel like your bluey's diet will suffer if you don't feed them these items.

Their digestive systems have obviously evolved without the necessity of 'fancy' grubs, and you're ordinary everyday (and pesticide free) garden grub should do the trick.

[Leigh]

I recently had a heap of snails in my yard but i went outside to get some and all the shells are empty....about 20 of em. Anyone know what causes that?
I thought i'd give my boys a treat but came in empty handed.

Kris

Mate I think the birds may of got them, I did a neat trick, fill the emptyshell with kale or some greens he eats and you might get a result

[Zach]

These charts of content are (in my opinion) minimally useful. Your final question is key to that - we have a list of precisely measured numbers that have no firm relationship to the animals needs. One obvious missing element is what fraction of the insect is actually digestible - wings for example generally just pass through, but count as protein. Another missing element is gut contents, which dramatically affects food value. At best you can read them and see that (a) everything is different and (b) the Ca:Ph ratio is clearly skewed toward phosphorus for all of them.

Conclusion: none of them are suitable as an exclusive diet, and therefore a variety of foods must be offered.

Hopefully you already knew that. We don't really know what the daily requirements are for fat and protein, and that is really only measuring at a very gross level - they may have specific mineral and micronutrient requirements that are difficult to measure or detect without long term feeding studies using a prepared diet. We do know that an exclusive cricket or superworm or mealworm diet without supplementation is insufficient for many of the widely kept insectivorous lizards (leopard geckos, chameleons) Some of the feeders in the list (mealworms/superworms/silkworms) tend to be fed a single element diet, which may make them less nutritious than the table suggests.

None of the prey items in the list are there because they are particularly great food for a skink, they are there because they are easy to commercially propagate and therefore available readily to you as a keeper. Fortunately for us, skinks like to eat such a wide variety of things that the particular content of any single prey item is largely irrelevant, as long as you are offering a wide variety of food that includes some items with high calcium content.

To sum up: Don't get hung up on the table. None of them are a staple diet - feed a variety.

Colin

ps. http://doubleds.org/contactus.html has similar info on roaches as well. They are higher in protein, so if you are in the camp that believes protein is better then they are better. I like them for reasons that have nothing to do with the table, but since my skink no longer seems to like them much it doesn't matter what the analysis is.

Well-said!

[bmxstreet21]

So what's wrong with mealworms? They have good bit of protein with little fat and low ash. So why are they not nutritional?

[Lucifer_Spades]

I recently had a heap of snails in my yard but i went outside to get some and all the shells are empty....about 20 of em. Anyone know what causes that?
I thought i'd give my boys a treat but came in empty handed.

Kris

Bluey's aren't the only snail eaters out there and not all of em can crack a shel but they can pull em out of it. Birds come to mind on this one.

[Lucifer_Spades]

So what's wrong with mealworms? They have good bit of protein with little fat and low ash. So why are they not nutritional?

The exoskeleton counts as protien but is rarely digested, so the digestable protein is not as high as the total protein as small as they are they only provide a limited amound of good innards to a high amount of indigestables, so it's like feeding a dog a high corn content dog food dogs can't digest corn so they eat a lot and poop a lot but don't get a whole lot of nutrition in between where as with high quality foods with meat (not meat by products) as a first ingrediant they eat less and poop less but get more of the stuff they need. does that help explain better?

[bmxstreet21]

Yes it does, thanks.

[NomadOfTheHills]

Not to say mealworms are a poor food, they are a great addition to a well balanced diet.

[KyleWeiss]

Not to say mealworms are a poor food, they are a great addition to a well balanced diet.

I can vouch for that, in a sense. If they're used like seasoning on an already great meal, why not have some live-action and flavor to stimulate the day's meal? I know that most animals like the taste of mealworms, so much so that they'll snub everything else. A key factor to why I think they're probably not a good "staple," foodsource.

KW

[NomadOfTheHills]

Exactly, while I don't use them as a stable meat portion, I use them as a seasoning. I do the same thing with superworms and pinkies

[DeadEye]

True something different every week or they will just want egg or meal worm. There fussy if you let them get that way , escargo or snails even sick bobies cant knock back a snail , fun to watch them head thrash off the shell then gulp down the snail. Really when there hungry they will eat tomato , or lettace . Ive done that made them wait till there hungry enough ...They must go weeks in our deserts without a feed of green , ive seen them turning rocks over to find bush cockroaches , woodies , worms up the farm even spiders
9 blue dogs 2 days old Love bluies

[NomadOfTheHills]

Are they heelers?

I thought they were born white with no spots?


They are so cute. I can't wait to get my puppy when I graduate college.

[Leigh]

Nice puppies mate, oohhh thats whats said to ladies with biggens , will you name one after your old healer.

[Zach]

Stable