Is there a good growth chart out there for BTS?

[Richard.C]

earlier you mentioned she went there and collected wild ones her self

im not saying ones like that arent found there,om saying yes they are but so are ones that look nothing like that,the bluey bible says that to

even you said ones like that are also found on the mainland,they didnt just happen to get over there though,they always would have been,there on other oslands to,the bluey bible mentions that as well

my point is calling an animal a locale off looks is erronous especially when other locales look the same and also some from said locale fall outside those traits mentioned for iding said locale animals

saying otherwise and ignoring those facts is called here say

[Susann]

OK. Dakota, gehtan is obviously getting very confused here.

Sorry, but I was finding a very very hard time on knowing its kind. Even the seller cant tell what it is specifically.
Dakota was the one who introduced to me the Halms. THANKS BRO!
I just want more information concerning the halms so i can understand it more and care for it. If you said look on the Indo page i think its too general for me.
At first the Indo page was not that convincing because it did not even really label one, so how would I know?
Im just a pet owner that cares for his rather "not-really known" pet.

Gehtan, an Indonesian BTS = T. g. gigas.
An Indonesian BTS from the mainland = T. g. gigas.
An Indonesian BTS from the Halmahera island = T. g. gigas.
A short, yellow Indonesian BTS with wide stripes = T. g. gigas.
A long, silver Indonesian BTS with thin stripes = T. g. gigas.
An Indonesian = T. g. gigas.
A Halmahera = T. g. gigas.

If you want to know what your skink needs, look under Indonesian (T. g. gigas). Whatever it says would pertain to your skink, even if your skink has wide stripes, even if it came from Halmahera, even if the seller can't tell what it is specifically.
We say it's an Indonesian. It is NOT a "not-really-known" pet.

[Dakota]

Maya, a breeder of the Northern, Merauke, IJ, and soon the Axanthic in Malaysia.. knows exactly where her pair was collected.. and it was Halmahera Island.

Here is an Axanthic, which I am friends with someone that has two collected from the island.

Anywayyys--

..so pretty hard to say its a halmahera based off looks when in fact it may not be one of thoset

Now you are saying it is one?

Susann-- we are talking on Facebook.

[Susann]

Susann-- we are talking on Facebook.

So? He still isn't getting that the care for his skink is the same as for other Indos.

[Dakota]

I didn't know he thought the care was different. I'll inform him.

[Richard.C]

nope,im saying that the traits arent restricted to halmahera and that the traits dont cover all the gigases from halmahera,so using those traits to id them is poor idmanship

or as u put it,here say not based on facts

[Scincoides]

Ok, Dakota, I would love to be able to side with you because I think your a very smart kid... unfortunately Richard is very much correct, and hes just trying to point out that animals with a certain look can exist in drasticallydifferent areas. While i would assume that most animals on the island of halmahera have that appearance, there's probably a ton on the mainland that look just like them. You also have to take into consideration that Richard has been keeping BTS longer than you've been alive... AND he lives in the bluey homeland. Lol As far as the appearance thing goes, look at the side winder Crotalus Cerastes and the desert horned viper Cerastes Cerastes. Very very similar in appearance even though they are from opposite ends of the earth. Not even remotely related. Divergent evolution resulted in them both developing a very similar appearance. It would be Much much easier for animals of the same species, native to the same area to develops the same appearance.

[Dakota]

So, Richard.. can I ask your opinion?

This is Larissa Lurid's skink. She has been calling it a "Merauke intergrade", and looks quite like the photo you posted. Would you consider this a Halmahera Island, as well? I have seen a bunch of skinks like this, now that you say something about this.. but couldn't quite put my finger on it.

Valley, it has not been recorded of a true Halmahera Island Bluey, that we all know to be found on the mainland, though. If so, I would love to see. But Richard, at first, was saying this is quite possibly not a true Halmahera Indo, but now he is saying there is more than just one looking locale found on the island.. I'm getting confused.

Photo credit: Larissa Lurid, not mine. just using as an example.

[El Lobo]

How can any part of Indonesia be labelled 'mainland'?

Indonesia is an archipelago of >17,000 islands, >900 of which are permanently inhabited. BTS originating from the whole archipelago are simply given the name of a region, which may even have little bearing on their actual origin. Differentiation is only a generalisation of the colours/bandings, not an absolute determination of origin. T.s.scincoides are spread over much of the east coast of Australia and have a range of colours/bandings yet they are still called Easterns, sometimes with the added description of form to acknowledge their likely home range.

[Dakota]

For the moderator: Please please please please don't take this as a "who has a hairier chest", as Norm would put. Just a friendly conversation over different opinions.

[Dakota]

I just gave this island as the mainland, Norm:

[Richard.C]

easterns from juat one locality are so highly variable to,ive seen wild ones that look like sydney animals and sa animals just in my backyard alone

dakota you are missing my point

im saying that traits described for halmahera animals also describe non halmahera animals,the classic halmahera look isnt restricted to halmahera ,plus doesnt even cover all halmaheran blueys,some dont share those traits

going just off the look of them its impoosable to really call them a halmahera animal as those traits arent restricted to halmahera nor are those traits reliable with the population on halmahera

you cant ignore those facts

[Dakota]

So, there are:
"Completely black stripe down neck.
Black banding, some can have a little specks of brown in between black banding.
Black belly with little white/red spots.
Excessive black webbing in between head-scales.
Front feet are completely black.
Back feet are almost completely black." which is found in all imported Halmahera Island Skinks found outside of the island..? and it states that in the bible? Could you take a picture of the page? I don't have one to read from.

ETA: I should also put, as you look down the tail, it get's more black, with less brown and white stripes.

[Susann]

Dakota. You are still missing the point.
...or maybe I'm the one who doesn't even know what the question is anymore!

[Dakota]

I would like to see proof that there has been a group of animals collected from a place that is not Halmahera, that looks exactly like the ones that are being exported from the peninsula.. heck even North Maluku.. that humans had nothing to do with.. (Such as releasing them in the wild on the mainland.) ..then I would agree, but only when.

[El Lobo]

Dakota - the island circled is known by two names: Papua and Irian Jaya depending on your geopolitics. Indonesia would regard it more as sensitive but would not considered it as culturally important as e.g. Java, Sumatra or Sulawesi. The bottom line though is they are all islands. Mainland is usually attributed to a continent not island, such as Hawaii's reference to the U.S. as the mainland.

[Scincoides]

We should start a "ship Dakota to Indo" fund. Then he can poke around and let us know what he finds

[Dakota]

We should start a "ship Dakota to Indo" fund. Then he can poke around and let us know what he finds

OH GOD. PLEASE TELL ME I'M NOT DREAMING.

[Scincoides]

But since your under age, you'll need a chaperone. I nominate Richard. I'd seriously chip in for that. You two stuck on an Indo island somewhere arguing about skinks. That would make a great reality show.

[Dakota]

I finally got the answer!

They are like the Merauke in every sense. They were first found in Merauke, but not limited to. Maya said that the Halmahera Island Blue-Tongued Skink was first discovered on the island, but soon after starting popping-up in Papua, what are the odds of them not being found on Papua first? It is likely that they were being let go in Papua, soon after making the pet-trade in Indonesia.

In a sense, we are all wrong. I was thinking they were only found on the island, and Richard was saying that all because it had the same characteristic of the ones being exported from the island, doesn't mean everyone you see on the forum is a Halmahera Island Blue-Tongued Skink. Indeed it is. Not all Meraukes are found in the city of Merauke, does this make them not Tiliqua gigas evanescens? No, they are still a Merauke Blue-Tongued Skink.. where they were first found. Same with the Irian Jaya. Giving them more specific names after the Indonesian was already established.

This is indeed a Halmahera Island Blue-Tongued Skink, but does not mean that is was collected on Halmahera. No way on knowing, unless you specifically had it exported from the island, or have documents saying so.

Such a relief to get the answer to that.