Enclosure Height, UV and Heat

[EverydayThor]

Hi everyone!
I'm still in the prep phase to get my first BTS. I'm looking into different vivarium sizes now. The ground area will be 4ft x 2ft but I’m not completely sure about the height. I was thinking about 2ft as well but after some more research into UV lighting, I’m afraid this might be too high to get the right UVB exposure for the animal.
What would you suggest? The original idea was to go with something like the Zoo Med T5HO ReptiSun 10.0 (86cm, 39W) but I’m worried that the light will not be strong enough for almost 2ft distance. I would still supplement D3 (and Ca) so it might still be fine but I wanted to get your opinion on this.
Also I’m not sure about the basking spot light. If I put something like the Exo Terra Halogen Spot inside, I would probably still have to have a heat guard around even at 2ft height, right? I’m not sure how this would look though, having the metal cage around the bulb hanging deep into the viv.
I was also considering a glass vivarium with a mesh screen but the ones available in the UK only come in 36x18x12 (Exo Terra Large/Low) and I feel like this might be too small (plus I would lose heat and UV because of the mesh as well). The mesh top would obviously only be an option for one of the Australian species that require less humidity.
During winter, the room might sometimes cool down to around 16°C (60°F) for short periods. Some people say that temperature would be fine during the night, some people say it should always be higher than 65/70°F. I’m not sure if a CHE on a thermostat will be necessary or if it would just be wasted money.
I’m not sure which would be the best way to go for the setup. Reduce the height for UV? What about the basking heat source being very close then? What about the CHE?
It’s the first vivarium I’m preparing and I want to get it right from the beginning. I’ve been reading a lot but since all these things depend on many different factors (from products used to dimensions etc) I could not find something “proper” yet.
Thank you so much!
Thor

[TPceebee]

I really like having 2ft in height. It's easier to access everything in the cage and looks a lot more spacious than the 16". If you go with a T5, rather than a T8 bulb then you don't need to worry about the height. They have a range of 24". I use a 36inch length and 6% strength.

I don't use a bulb guard in my cage, but the bulb is far enough away from the walls and corners that he can't reach it even if he did climb.

The basking bulb I use is a 75watt flood light (arcadia I think) and I combine that with a 150 watt ceramic bulb, which is connected to a digital dimming thermostat. The basking bulb is on a manual dimmer plug, then connected to a 2-way extension cable along with the t5 and is then plugged into the lighting slot of the thermostat. The ceramic heater is plugged into the temperature slot of the thermostat and keeps the temperature regulated during the night.
That's what's worked for me for years, but I wonder if anyone has any simpler setups...

As for cages, I get mine from provivs. They're affordable and are a larger size than the branded ones like VivExotic.
Try hunting around for stuff on SwellReptiles, Internet Reptile and Amazon. It's usually cheaper than buying from a petshop.

Hope this helps!

[EverydayThor]

Hey there!
You helped me big time with your answer for sure. Have my setup planned now (at least the electrical devices) and will go with a provivs one.
Do you have the T5 bulb in the centre of your viv or more on the hot side so that we have more UV in the "sunny" area and a stronger gradient to the other side?
Changed the setup to 5ft x 2ft and will get a 46in Arcadia T5HO with 6%.
Will go with an Arcadia Halogen Basking Spot 100W for heat (on a Microclimate Dimmer B1 HT). Leaving out the CHE for now as I will keep some dark slate inside so I doubt that night time temperatures drop anywhere close to 60°F.

Now I'll just have to sort out substrate, decoration etc but those questions are already in a separate thread

[TPceebee]

Hey, again, sorry for the delay. You've probably set-up already, but yeah I set the UV bulb up to cover the hot end more than the cold end.

Glad I could help! Hope you're doing well on getting everything sorted for the new family member!

[kingofnobbys]

This will give quantitative guidance on how to set up your basking globe and UV source wrt levels of UV , and temperatures , and appropriate UV and temperature gradients ( requirements )

https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/vi ... 4&t=249112

Please be aware that mounting any UV source ontop a mesh lid , unless it's very big mesh ( like bird cage mesh ) will result in a significant "shading loss" of UV up to 45% which will more or less cancel the benefits of having a properly designed reflector or reflector hood.

Only practical way to get zero UVI is by providng a hide.

[kingofnobbys]

Hi everyone!
I'm still in the prep phase to get my first BTS. I'm looking into different vivarium sizes now. The ground area will be 4ft x 2ft but I’m not completely sure about the height. I was thinking about 2ft as well but after some more research into UV lighting, I’m afraid this might be too high to get the right UVB exposure for the animal.
<<< which species of BTS are you looking at getting ?
I'd settling on species and build a viv to suit after checking expert sources ( good detailed books or caresheets or discussing needs with a bonefide captive breeder of the species )
If you decide to get a baby or juvenile , they can live happily for 6 to 12 months on a large converted plastic rearing tub. .

All the Indonesian island species come from equatorial grasslands , extreme levels of UV year round.
Northerns from tropical northern Australian sevannahs and woodlands , extreme levels of UV year round.
easterns literally from Melbourne to Cape York ( so subtropical to tropical ) , I use 26W UVB200 globes in nanohoods mounted 20cm from the basking spot from my two.

What would you suggest? The original idea was to go with something like the Zoo Med T5HO ReptiSun 10.0 (86cm, 39W) but I’m worried that the light will not be strong enough for almost 2ft distance. I would still supplement D3 (and Ca) so it might still be fine but I wanted to get your opinion on this.
<<< If you have a very good UVB source ie a T5ho 10%UVB or higher ( 12% or 14%) , in a reflector hood mounted so it's unobstructed ( under the roof or lid) and about 30cm from the basking spot ( 10% UVB T5ho tube) , it's unnecessary supplement with VitD3 fortified calcioum or multivitamin powder - I'd advise against it , Can unfortified calcium and vitamin supps are fine.

Also I’m not sure about the basking spot light. If I put something like the Exo Terra Halogen Spot inside, I would probably still have to have a heat guard around even at 2ft height, right? I’m not sure how this would look though, having the metal cage around the bulb hanging deep into the viv.
<<< setting up the basking spot temp is usually trial and error unless the globe is dimmable and you have a dimming thermostat with a remote probe (on a cable) that can be position either on the basking spot surface directly under the globe ( to measure the surface temperature and radiant temperature) or dangled in the air just above the basking spot surface ( to measure the basking spot air and radiant temperatures) , the two temperatures will be different by perhaps several degrees Celsius depending on the material used for the basking spot ( it's k value, it's Cp value ( thermal capacity , ability to absorb heat) , and it's ability to reradiate heat given by it's emissivity ) .
I was also considering a glass vivarium with a mesh screen but the ones available in the UK only come in 36x18x12 (Exo Terra Large/Low) and I feel like this might be too small (plus I would lose heat and UV because of the mesh as well). The mesh top would obviously only be an option for one of the Australian species that require less humidity.

I suggest the tank needs to be at least 2x the length of the expected adult length ( nose to tail tip ) in length FOR ONE SKINK and the depth of the tank (front to back) about the adult length of the skink.
Tank height if basking globe is not dimmed or undimmable (ie a MVB) will be governed by the height of the globe in the ceramic e27 fitting (there a low profile versions about) and the height of the basking spot and the desired temperatures in the basking spot and warm zone .
My EBTs tanks (made from plywood with front sliding glass doors ) are both 45cm tall and I run 80W Philips par38 flood globes in the BTs tanks , the basking spots are jumbo sized hubbahuts (double as a basking spot and a warm zone hide).I'm converting to Arcadia T5ho Slimline hoods and 24W 12%UVB tubes and retiring the UVB200 globes and nano hoods soon .

I'd never use a mesh topped viv for any skink. Too hard to establish a stable thermal gradient and you'll need much higher wattage basking globes and CHEs to maintain adequate temperatures.

During winter, the room might sometimes cool down to around 16°C (60°F) for short periods.
<< too cold , consider a source that has a separate inline thermostat controlling the heat in the tank for overnight ( ie a CHE set to hold the tank at above 22 degC overnight , or a heatpad controlled by a separate thermostat , pad sandwiched between floor tiles, and placed under a hide .
This is even more important for baby and juvenile bts of all species.

Some people say that temperature would be fine during the night, some people say it should always be higher than 65/70°F. I’m not sure if a CHE on a thermostat will be necessary or if it would just be wasted money.
I’m not sure which would be the best way to go for the setup. Reduce the height for UV? What about the basking heat source being very close then? What about the CHE?
It’s the first vivarium I’m preparing and I want to get it right from the beginning. I’ve been reading a lot but since all these things depend on many different factors (from products used to dimensions etc) I could not find something “proper” yet.
<<< BTs are surprisingly competent climbers , so if you have the space for a 2ft tall tank, I'd give the skink /s one with nice easy climbing options .

Thank you so much!
Thor

[EverydayThor]

Hiya,
thanks for the great answer again!
Loki is a Northern BTS and in the end I went with the ProT5HO Kit from Arcadia with 6%. Based on the distance to the ground and the basking places, the 10/12% would have been too strong according to the Fergusson zones. As the bulb is 48in in a 5ft viv, I did not want to risk too high UV.

I got my Calcium and Vitamins with and without D3, so I can mainly feed without and every once in a while Supplement the D3 as well.

Currently the basking spot is a black slate with the temperature probe attached to it with cloth tape (we talked about this in a separate thread as well). Warm hides next to the slate are some cork bark and a worn shirt (his favorite sleeping place).
If I used the giant Hubba hut that I already have in there as basking spot, it would be very close to the heat bulb and protector cage and the bulb would only have to emit very little heat, so I am not sure if I would get the ambient temperature to decent levels. Will try that once I start reorganizing the "interior". For not the Hubba hut is mainly his climbing area

Thanks for the feedback regarding the winter temperature. I'll have to see how I sort this as all edges are sealed and I could not get additional cables in without cutting everything open. I might just run an electric heater in the room for the colder nights. The viv cools down less than the room anyways, so this might be a workaround here. Or would it make sense to replace the light emitting basking spot bulb with a CHE in winter? Will some part of the light be missing than for a BTS? It has the UV bulb, so I'm not sure if some wavelengths of the halogen bulb are important, too?

Thank you!

[kingofnobbys]

Hiya,
thanks for the great answer again!
Loki is a Northern BTS and in the end I went with the ProT5HO Kit from Arcadia with 6%. Based on the distance to the ground and the basking places, the 10/12% would have been too strong according to the Fergusson zones.
<<< Fergusson zones are very concervative and are only really applicable to reptiles indigenous to the conUSA and Nth Africa. Really need extension to take into account the UV-Index in summer in Africa , Australia, etc where a Fergussen Zone of 5 or 6 would be applicable.

Here is the natural distribution of Northern BTS

ref https://bie.ala.org.au/species/urn:lsid ... a873c0cc51
and here is an indication of the UV-Index (for today = late winter) : http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/meteye/

UV-index = 10 - 11 typical in the region , even higher in summer , , my observation of eastern and northern BTS in the wild is they love to get out and bask in full sun .
Your best guide is to consult the climate data UVI for the species in their natural range , IMO Fergusson zones are too low for most Equatorial and tropical zone reptiles. , I'd be aiming for a UVB flux about 160 microW / sq.cm at the basking spot for your NBTS to ensure it gets sufficient UV .

As the bulb is 48in in a 5ft viv, I did not want to risk too high UV.

I got my Calcium and Vitamins with and without D3, so I can mainly feed without and every once in a while Supplement the D3 as well.

<<<< If you are only using a T5ho 6% tube , you'll need to supplement with VitD3 for a northern. I'd go for the 12% uvb tube.
I think also 48" tube in a 52" viv is too long , I'd restrict to a 36" tube. This will give a much better UVA & UVB gradient.

Currently the basking spot is a black slate with the temperature probe attached to it with cloth tape (we talked about this in a separate thread as well). Warm hides next to the slate are some cork bark and a worn shirt (his favorite sleeping place).
If I used the giant Hubba hut that I already have in there as basking spot, it would be very close to the heat bulb and protector cage and the bulb would only have to emit very little heat, so I am not sure if I would get the ambient temperature to decent levels. Will try that once I start reorganizing the "interior". For not the Hubba hut is mainly his climbing area

Thanks for the feedback regarding the winter temperature. I'll have to see how I sort this as all edges are sealed and I could not get additional cables in without cutting everything open. I might just run an electric heater in the room for the colder nights.
It's worth getting a sparky in to install the electric cables, they can use a very small drilled hole to thread "the needle" with the disconnected cables for the reflector , and two ceramic e27 fittings (for the basking glone and a CHE) and then connect these with minimal disturbance. Worth paying the sparky for a hour's work IMO.

The viv cools down less than the room anyways, so this might be a workaround here. Or would it make sense to replace the light emitting basking spot bulb with a CHE in winter? Will some part of the light be missing than for a BTS? It has the UV bulb, so I'm not sure if some wavelengths of the halogen bulb are important, too?

Thank you!

[EverydayThor]

Okay, great to know these things. Unfortunately, I could not find the information in this way before.
I have the 48in as I read that it should cover at least 2/3 of the length ( =40in). But will change to the 10 or 12% once I replace it and will provide D3 supplement until then. I read in several places that too strong UV can hurt BTS eyes, so I did not want to take the risk and rather supplement than blinding them. Loki sure enjoys basking on his cork bark under the UV and close to the basking spot. Unfortunately, a UV meter was not in the budget for now, so I had to rely on the information I could find online.
Will consider getting a sparky for the additional work. Will surely be more skilled and equipped with better tools than myself