IndoBTS mouth rot?

[DMVB]

Hi!
I’m new here and I have a concern of a lump on the rim of my skinks mouth. Not sure it’s mouth rot or if he has something stuck. I didn’t notice it yesterday when he began shedding. He still has some stuck shed he was working on today. The pics I attached aren’t good - just looking for opinion?
His appointment is scheduled for Monday as the vet won’t be in until then. I’m just looking for some peace of mind!
His tank is relatively new so we don’t have a built up of Gunk/poop/bacteria. He moved into his bigger tank about a month ago. Poop gets cleaned out immediately. Humidity stays between 40-60% with a drop in humidity at night. Cold side temp is in the low to mid 80s and hot side is in the low 90s with a basking spot of between 95-100. We live in the mountains where some days my house won’t get warm and other days I can keep it heated well so the range in temps are pretty broad.
Anyways, back to the lump -
The lump looks like it is near a tooth. It doesn’t allow him to close his mouth all the way at times. Other times I’ve noticed it’s just fine. He does eat - worms, blueberries, greens, cat food, etc just fine.
During his shed he rubbed his face on everything and wonder if he injured himself somehow.

I can try and post a better pic if necessary. I just can’t quite find pictures of what actual mouth rot looks like. I also can’t find pictures what he has which looks almost like an ulcer or abscess.

I’d appreciate any help at all. In the meant time I’m just waiting to go to the vet which we don’t have any good ones around so going there with some knowledge would be great!

[mb606587]

It doesn't appear to be mouth rot from the first photo but obviously it can be hard to diagnose from just a picture so it's good that you are seeing a vet. A vet will have to pry the mouth open and get a good look inside. Some skinks will actually allow you to manually open their mouth whereas others you may have to use a popsicle stick but if you could get a picture with the mouth open such as in photo I attached it may be easier to tell.

With more severe cases of mouth rot, your skink will refuse food so the fact that yours is still eating is obviously a good sign. And some skinks just have naturally funny jaws that don't allow them to fully close. One of mine again pictured below. However you do have some issues with your husbandry that may need addressed, specifically humidity. From the looks of it, you have a Merauke, but it's a bit hard to be sure based off the limited pictures. 40% humidity which you stated yours drops to at times is most likely too low. This could lead to shedding issues, or scalation problems on the mouth, or it could help lead to mouth rot. Try to keep your humidity at a minimum over 50%, if not 60%.

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[DMVB]

Thanks for the response!
I purchased him as an Indonesian BTS and haven’t maintained his temps or humidity for any other skink. I attached another pic of him in his old tank. Does he still look like a different type skink?

I’m assuming it isn’t mouth rot - just an injury from scrubbing his face. I’m going to feed him just fruit and veg and keep an eye on the spot until Monday. I’ll attach a new pic tomorrow evening after I finish working.

[mb606587]

Yes that is a Merauke, a subspecies of Indonesian Blue Tongue Skink.

[DMVB]

So, maybe this is a dumb question, is there a difference between Merauke and Indonesian if the merauke is a subspecies of the Indonesian? Also, by looking at both pics online thru google, I can’t see the difference. What makes them visually different?

Thank you for schooling me! I bought him from a larger online reptile breeder as a “baby” and received this monstrosity in April. There are so many conflicting resources out there about Indonesian (which is what I was under the impression that I was buying) that I’ve just kind of had to go with my gut regarding all the information. He’s mine - so I def don’t want that to sound negative at all. I am just hoping my lack of proper husbandry hasn’t led him to mouth rot/infection.

I appreciate any help!

[mb606587]

Yes there is a difference between the two, albeit slight. The Merauke is the larger of the two, however the care is virtually identical. IMO, the Merauke is a bit more tolerant of the humidity dropping.

I wouldn't recommend trying to Google the species as many of the pictures you will find will be inaccurately labeled. You may notice on the index page of this site a tab entitled BTS Species Descriptions --from bluetongueskinks.net. The differences are very subtle, however you will notice the Merauke has more spotted forelimbs whereas the Classic Indonesian has very lightly speckled, if not entirely black limbs. Also the Merauke tends to have lighter colored bands, however this can vary by individual.

[DMVB]

So I tried to get a better angle. He is still currently going thru a shed. Husband said he did attempt to feed him a few worms a few days back with feeding tongs. So I think he’s either injured himself during his shed or possibly during his feed. The sore in his mouth looks better today. Same color as his gums but still swollen. Better than the pink and swollen yesterday. It is between the tooth and the lip which I’m assuming is the gum. I couldn’t quite get a good picture while feeding him earlier to portray the little lump.

Also attached a full body pic in hopes you could confirm again he’s a merauke so I can begin my research in the care of said species. He’s nearly the length of his 75 gallon tank. Hoping soon to have him in something much larger:)

Thanks again so much!

[DMVB]

Full length

[DMVB]

Also maybe this helps some. I realized the other photos may be hard to see what I am talking about

[mb606587]

It's very possible that's an early stage of an infection or an abcess as there is some discoloration. As I said, you'll have to get that mouth open to see how the inside looks. Vet will probably prescribe some antibiotics. And I can tell you that you have a Merauke. Without a doubt.

[DMVB]

Well I bought him from a fairly well known online reptile distributor under the impression I was to receive a baby indo. at the time I never realized there were different species of BTS. I just knew I wanted that one. Well when he arrived he was this massive lizard and I was so confused.
Now, thinking about it, it’s really not that surprising they sent a merauke. I have a feeling he was their retired breeder they sent. And a part of me wonders if the sale was a mistake but rather than refund the money they had to send “something”. Possibly didn’t have anymore lizards in stock that were babies.
All speculation.

Anyways I appreciate your help.

[mb606587]

I don't want to burst your bubble here but many of the well known online reptile distributors do not breed a majority of their reptiles. And certainly not Indonesian species Blue Tongue Skinks, which are rarely bred in captivity to begin with. The more likely scenario is your skink was imported and mislabeled by the importers as is routinely done. The animal was sold to the distributor as an Indonesian and was subsequently sold to you as such.

Also some distributors do not distinguish the various subspecies at all and lump all Blue Tongue Skinks from New Guinea as "Indonesian." There are actually currently three subspecies of Indonesian Blue Tongue Skink named; Tiliqua gigas gigas which is commonly referred to as the Indonesian or "Classic Indonesian," Tiliqua gigas keyensis or Kei Island Blue Tongue Skink, and lastly, what you own, Tiliqua gigas evanescens the Merauke. What all three share in common is that gigas species name meaning they are an Indonesian species, despite the fact they are broken into different subspecies due to stark differences in physical appearance. Unfortunately, the vast majority of all three of these examples found in the US were wild caught and imported.

[DMVB]

Well that would make more since. And I suppose “why” he was shipped to me is irrelevant. After all I did order him lol
But I appreciate your help. I knew he was wild caught as an Indonesian but wasn’t sure about merauke. Thank you so much!

[DMVB]

I got a better pic!
The vet called this morning to rescheduled do I’m in hunt for another vet. We have very limited resources here.
Any ideas what it could be? I’m assuming it’s not mouth rot.

[DMVB]

Also, in addition, he’s still eating and drinking. Hasn’t pooped in a few days. I’ve pretty much just stuck to not so wet foods however the only way I can get him out is with blueberries and superworms. Wondering if the worms cause impaction or it he just has decided not to poo. I’ve got a kitten that likes to try and sit above him and watch him too that may be throwing him off. May be irrelevant but figured I’d offer all that I could.

[mb606587]

Yes the inside of that mouth looks good. Seems to be an abscess which sometimes does occur in the mouth. A vet may decide to drain any fluid build up and prescribe some antibiotics.

[DMVB]

So will the abscess not go away on it’s own?

[mb606587]

I already addressed this for you by PM, but for the sake of others to read, the abscess will usually heal on its own if no infection is present. If infected, typically it will grow in size and will need antibiotic treatment. It's best to err on the side of caution and have the vet treat the skink as most reptiles are adept at hiding symptoms of illnesses and injury until it's too late.