Keeping BTS without UVB

[megamuff]

Hey guys! I’m new here. I’ll be (hopefully) getting a northern BTS next month. I’ve read all over this website, watched YouTube videos, and googled this but I’ve never found a solid answer. How do you keep a BTS without UVB? I don’t understand how often I’m supposed to give him calcium with vitamin D3. Everything I’ve read either links to another useless post, or the answers are very vague. I’d prefer to know the exact dosage and how often you guys give your blueys calcium with D3, preferably from people that don’t use UVB. Thanks in advance!

~Meagan

[jdheff1982]

My question for you is why would you not offer UVB and did you read the general care sheet here?

UVB bulbs come in both the standard long tube fluorescent bulbs and compact bulbs which work in standard light sockets. I use the compact bulbs myself. As for the cal+d3 supplement, typically it is dosed by the weight of the food. The powdered supplements typically come with a mini spoon and they'll say X number of scoops per ounce of food or something like that. Just gotta read the label. I've had my Northern since he was 4 months old and he will be 5 years old in June. He's been a great pet!

I highly recommend you read the care sheet available on this website. It is a very good guide for newbies and it's not another useless post. http://bluetongueskinks.net/care.htm#diet

Good luck!

[megamuff]

My question for you is why would you not offer UVB and did you read the general care sheet here?

UVB bulbs come in both the standard long tube fluorescent bulbs and compact bulbs which work in standard light sockets. I use the compact bulbs myself. As for the cal+d3 supplement, typically it is dosed by the weight of the food. The powdered supplements typically come with a mini spoon and they'll say X number of scoops per ounce of food or something like that. Just gotta read the label. I've had my Northern since he was 4 months old and he will be 5 years old in June. He's been a great pet!

I highly recommend you read the care sheet available on this website. It is a very good guide for newbies and it's not another useless post. http://bluetongueskinks.net/care.htm#diet

Good luck!

Yes I read the caresheet. I don’t want to use UVB because of read studies and the BTS that we’re supplemented with no UVB did just as well as those that had UVB and d3. I just personally don’t want to use UVB

[jdheff1982]

My question for you is why would you not offer UVB and did you read the general care sheet here?

UVB bulbs come in both the standard long tube fluorescent bulbs and compact bulbs which work in standard light sockets. I use the compact bulbs myself. As for the cal+d3 supplement, typically it is dosed by the weight of the food. The powdered supplements typically come with a mini spoon and they'll say X number of scoops per ounce of food or something like that. Just gotta read the label. I've had my Northern since he was 4 months old and he will be 5 years old in June. He's been a great pet!

I highly recommend you read the care sheet available on this website. It is a very good guide for newbies and it's not another useless post. http://bluetongueskinks.net/care.htm#diet

Good luck!

Yes I read the caresheet. I don’t want to use UVB because of read studies and the BTS that we’re supplemented with no UVB did just as well as those that had UVB and d3. I just personally don’t want to use UVB

You will get ppl on both sides of the UVB fence. My take on it is that most of the day-time reptiles do need UVB to convert D3 to calcium; so, why not supply it anyways. The compact FL bulbs don't use a lot of energy as is. My current setup uses a LED floodlight, a compact FLB and a CHE on top of a 2 foot x 4 foot x 10 inch tall enclosure.

[kingofnobbys]

Well, keep in mind you are condemning it to suffering MDB , those who keep skinks in racks of tubs claim their skinks do OK with only h/pads , BUT they don't stay healthy very long.

Giving it fake VitD3 is not substitute for natural VitD3 made in the skink on exposure to UVB. They also UVA to promote good health , there is no substitute for a good source of both UVA & UVB for a healthy happy active skink.

[megamuff]

Well, keep in mind you are condemning it to suffering MDB , those who keep skinks in racks of tubs claim their skinks do OK with only h/pads , BUT they don't stay healthy very long.

Giving it fake VitD3 is not substitute for natural VitD3 made in the skink on exposure to UVB. They also UVA to promote good health , there is no substitute for a good source of both UVA & UVB for a healthy happy active skink.

As I said, there was a study done on them and the ones with only the vitamin d3 supplement were just as healthy as the ones with uvb. He won’t be kept in a tub where he can’t see anything, he’ll be in a nicely lit part of my house in an aquarium. I really didn’t want answers from people saying that I’m doing it wrong, I only want answers that will actually help me with the question I asked. I’ve read plenty about it and I know from what I’ve read and watched that uvb is not required for them to live a long, healthy life. It won’t suffer from MBD, a lot of keepers don’t use uvb and the skinks never develop MBD.

[kingofnobbys]

Well, keep in mind you are condemning it to suffering MDB , those who keep skinks in racks of tubs claim their skinks do OK with only h/pads , BUT they don't stay healthy very long.

Giving it fake VitD3 is not substitute for natural VitD3 made in the skink on exposure to UVB. They also UVA to promote good health , there is no substitute for a good source of both UVA & UVB for a healthy happy active skink.

As I said, there was a study done on them and the ones with only the vitamin d3 supplement were just as healthy as the ones with uvb. He won’t be kept in a tub where he can’t see anything, he’ll be in a nicely lit part of my house in an aquarium. I really didn’t want answers from people saying that I’m doing it wrong, I only want answers that will actually help me with the question I asked. I’ve read plenty about it and I know from what I’ve read and watched that uvb is not required for them to live a long, healthy life. It won’t suffer from MBD, a lot of keepers don’t use uvb and the skinks never develop MBD.

Obviously you have not .... sorry but bluetongues require UVB & UVA , irrespective of the species , it's just a matter of whever it's 5%UVB minimum or 10%UVB minimum. Giving vitD3 via suppliments WILL result in health issues , this is because the solubility Ca in the blood stream is limited and giving fake vitD3 orally as supplement is a very inefficient way to getting it into a low metabolic rate reptile , and can result a VitD toxicity as well as MBD..

No UVB in the tank / tub will ONLY work if you allow the skink to have regular access to UNFILTERED DIRECT SUN LIGHT (at least an hour a week in tropical locations , an hour a day in more temperate locations .
Placing the glass or mesh tank near a window is not going to work as even when the sunlight appears to be beaming directly through the window into the tank, the glass in the tank and the window blocks nearly 95% of the UVB and flyscreen blocks in excess of 60% of the UVB.
Another risk of having a BTS tank in direct light coming in through a window is over heating the skink in hot weather. MOST DEFINITELY NOT ADVISABLE and the skink WILL require a good source of UVA & UVB in it's tank.

[splashy07]

Every breeder I know keeps their BTs in racks. Prolific breeders for 30+ years included. I do not, but I do not use UV either. I don't care what marketing claims these lights can do but nothing can duplicate natural sunlight. I use supplements. They work. I have raised countless reptiles from infancy and I live in the Northeast. Check out some videos on one of the most prolific breeders in Australia, and possibly the world, Joe Ball. He keeps many outside, but also indoors in racks. And feeds them cat food. Opinions are what they are, I deal in facts.

[kayla990]

Uff, tough situation. Will say a little input: we've always been taught (from the zoo as well) to provide as much as possible without relying too heavily on supplements. In regards to UVB, it was always provided but never fully relied on - so some form of supplements (both powders and just encouraging a well rounded diet) were used regardless. Luckily bluey's are pretty sturdy so can survive on what they are given. But fair to say it will always be debated on whether it harms them by not providing UVB lights - so many variables on how people keep reptiles (though I'll never agree with breeding racks, so little stimulus and so small tubs...seems such a sad life).

Anywho - as others have said I would still encourage anyone to use UVB; if it's for a single pet I'm unsure why it would be avoided. As I agree that if supplements are done incorrectly, there is more chance of MBD etc - better to provide an alternative to back up any human mistakes.

[Angel_BTS]

I personally keep my reptiles with UVB and I also give them a vitamin D3 supplement each day, but there are high success rates out there from those who keep reptiles without a UVB light. For a reference - type “ReptileMountain.TV” into YouTube, and multiple videos come up from an experienced BTS keeper, who keeps all of his skinks without UVB lighting. He also has good information on his YouTube channel about other common skink problems too He has a lot of info on how to successfully keep skinks without UVB - although he does use tubs as he breeds skinks. Hope this helps.

[splashy07]

I've gone either way with this over the years, when I was breeding bearded dragons I did a little experiment, some with, some without and experienced the same results. Tried it with BTs also, and same. I personally do not use racks for my lizards simply because I like to observe them. Then again, it simply is not feasible for someone who has 40+ animals to have 40 four foot cages. I do not know anyone who has that much real estate. An interesting note, my very first bearded dragon (late 80s, early 90s, whenever they came available on this side of the pond) got the full spectrum lighting and everything else by the book. He came down with MBD anyway, regardless. I believe it has a lot to do with genetics and all the inbreeding out there, and/or the care the animal received before it gets to its new owner. My dragon, beloved Scorpio, (was my birthday present to myself) lived to be 10 years old, the last two years being hand fed. I have not since had an animal come down with MBD, and I can't even begin to count how many I've raised since then. The decision yes or no to UVB is entirely up to the keeper, I am just going by my past experience. I simply do not believe any indoor lighting can do what the sun can do. Unless you are a plant.

[megamuff]

Every breeder I know keeps their BTs in racks. Prolific breeders for 30+ years included. I do not, but I do not use UV either. I don't care what marketing claims these lights can do but nothing can duplicate natural sunlight. I use supplements. They work. I have raised countless reptiles from infancy and I live in the Northeast. Check out some videos on one of the most prolific breeders in Australia, and possibly the world, Joe Ball. He keeps many outside, but also indoors in racks. And feeds them cat food. Opinions are what they are, I deal in facts.

Thank you!

[megamuff]

Well, keep in mind you are condemning it to suffering MDB , those who keep skinks in racks of tubs claim their skinks do OK with only h/pads , BUT they don't stay healthy very long.

Giving it fake VitD3 is not substitute for natural VitD3 made in the skink on exposure to UVB. They also UVA to promote good health , there is no substitute for a good source of both UVA & UVB for a healthy happy active skink.

As I said, there was a study done on them and the ones with only the vitamin d3 supplement were just as healthy as the ones with uvb. He won’t be kept in a tub where he can’t see anything, he’ll be in a nicely lit part of my house in an aquarium. I really didn’t want answers from people saying that I’m doing it wrong, I only want answers that will actually help me with the question I asked. I’ve read plenty about it and I know from what I’ve read and watched that uvb is not required for them to live a long, healthy life. It won’t suffer from MBD, a lot of keepers don’t use uvb and the skinks never develop MBD.

Obviously you have not .... sorry but bluetongues require UVB & UVA , irrespective of the species , it's just a matter of whever it's 5%UVB minimum or 10%UVB minimum. Giving vitD3 via suppliments WILL result in health issues , this is because the solubility Ca in the blood stream is limited and giving fake vitD3 orally as supplement is a very inefficient way to getting it into a low metabolic rate reptile , and can result a VitD toxicity as well as MBD..

No UVB in the tank / tub will ONLY work if you allow the skink to have regular access to UNFILTERED DIRECT SUN LIGHT (at least an hour a week in tropical locations , an hour a day in more temperate locations .
Placing the glass or mesh tank near a window is not going to work as even when the sunlight appears to be beaming directly through the window into the tank, the glass in the tank and the window blocks nearly 95% of the UVB and flyscreen blocks in excess of 60% of the UVB.
Another risk of having a BTS tank in direct light coming in through a window is over heating the skink in hot weather. MOST DEFINITELY NOT ADVISABLE and the skink WILL require a good source of UVA & UVB in it's tank.

Seriously? I’m not going to lie about it. It doesn’t matter, you’ve been no help. You’ve just pushed your opinion and argued. I only wanted help from people that have kept them without uvb or people that could nicely say, “I think it’s best to use uvb, but if you don’t want to then do this.”

[kingofnobbys]

Your pets .... can't force you to invest in good UV( UVA & UVB) sources to go into their tanks / tubs. I wont encourage the practice and the evidence available (I can provide links to peer reviewed papers) indicate it's very risky to entirely rely in diet and vitD3 fortified suppliments only.

Unlike most here, I am fortunate enough to I live in the natural range of eastern bluetongue skinks , and have benefitted from a life time of observing their behavior in the wild , and even have a couple of wild ones living under my house who on most warm hazy or sunny days are seen basking , and there has been a little wild juvenile bluetongue skink living in my shed who takes advantage of the open roller door when ever I open it , who can usually been seen about the same time everyday on the concrete fridge infront of the roller door that I have set up to be locable with enough gap under it for it and the wild water skinks who also live in the shed to get out.
They come out when the sun is shining onto the concrete fringe - I believe they are seeking the UVA & UVB in the sun light. If they only needed warmth, it’s pretty hot in my shed and they wouldn’t ever bother coming out except to forage or drink or mate.

I have also worked and lived in northern bluetongue territory and we often spotted local skinks coming out from under the humpies and containers (used as storage) to bask most days.

On this basis , and the advise of my reptile vet , all my skinks get 26W UVB200 globes in their tanks.

This advise was repeated by the president of my local Herpetological Society in lecture he gave (he was , until he retired a very experienced and active local skink breeder who had 20 breeding pairs (all in outdoor pits) , and by a lecture I saw given by Dr.Brown . I recommended getting hold of Browns book A Guide to Australian Skinks in Captivity.

[Y33T]

I currently keep my blueys without UVB and they’re healthy. Though I’m still considering getting them UVB in the future sometime after I’ve upgraded them into their new homes.
UVB and UVA is very beneficial and I recommend ALL reptiles should have UVB including nocturnal species like geckos and some snakes.

[MemberBerries]

Hi, I know this is a old post but I wanted to add my 2 cents worth. About a year ago I purchased a juvenile eastern BTS. I was on a tight budget, and couldn’t afford a UVB BULB at the time. I had read plenty of reports of people successfully keeping BTS’s without them so I wasn’t too worried. I supplemented with calcium/d3 as directed on the package and had no problems.

Eventually the fluorescent lightbulb above her enclosure died so I decided to invest in a good quality UVB bulb to replace it. Immediately her behaviour changed, she was never shy to begin with, but she became so much more active. She spent more time basking, although not always directly under her CHE, and she began exploring her enclosure more.

Now maybe it was just a coincidence, and her behaviour changed for some other reason. IDK? Personally though I think it’s our job as reptile keepers to do the best we can. If you can’t afford a UVB bulb right away I wouldn’t worry, your BTS will definitely be fine for awhile on calcium/d3 alone. Eventually though, I would definitely recommend it for the long term.

Cheers,
MemberBerries