A Beginner's Question

[AndrewL]

Hey

This is my first time posting on this forum.
I am a kid and I am considering a baby blue tongue as my first reptile. I've had turtles before but they are pretty much my uncle's, so yeah, they are not mine. I actually want a turtle but my yard is too small for a pond so I guess a bluetongue is the choice. Keep in mind that I have not obtained my bluetongue yet and I am still considering a baby.
The problem is I have some questions about plastic tubs, location, substrate, the sun and food. Feel free to give me remarks and constructive criticism.
I have read multiple caresheets and threads, but these questions still pop up in my mind somehow.

Plastic Tubs -
I have a tub about 60x46x26 cm with holes on its lid and I am planning to get a bigger one once I saved some money and as the bluetongue grows. Its not glass or wood, but a plastic tub so maybe you guys can point that out because I am not 100% sure if it can be used or not (I have a relative who used to keep bluetongues in tubs, without UVB and they look healthy and are aggressive). I already have a dish for drinking and eating and a brick to be put in the tub.

Location -
I would be putting the tub either inside the house, near the dining area (during winter, early spring and late autumm) or outside the house on my balcony or backyard porch during summer. I have no other choices but to put the tub there. My parents would love them to be housed outside for whatever reason they have. Another place is in the garage but I hate it to be placed there, since thats where my cat patrols and rules and I also skate there sometimes, making it disruptive. In the house, it gets pretty noisy as well as my mom is loud when speaking and my house is so small and enclosed that I can hear echoes whenever we speak, and I am afraid it may stress the bluetongue out. Will this ruin my pet's life? Feedbacks on the locations of where to place the enclosure will be much appreciated.

Substrate -
I am planning to put aspen as substrate, but for the moment, I am considering on using those papers that are in shoeboxes or inside shoes as a temporary one for the bluetongue. I know that they love to burrow, but this is for temporary only, so is that ok? or will I upset him? Also, how often should I clean it besides spot cleaning? When spot cleaning, should I remove the food, urine, spills and poop ALONG with some parts of the substrate that it sticks on or should I only take the poop, food, urine, etc without the substrate?

The Sun-
Now about the sun. First, I am probably unlikely to get a UVB lamp since my dad says its expensive and replacing it every few months doesn't sound really appealing for him so he suggested that I put my bluetongue outside, under the sun every morning during feeding time and put him back in the house after an hour, in which I finally agreed (Remember that I will keep him indoors for most months of the year). I would probably be using a heat mat on one side of the tub (again, the tub is plastic and despite reading various answers and related topics, I am not sure whether the plastic will melt or not, as some say it will but some people say it won't) as heating, in the cold months and at night. Summer is probably the only season that the bluetongue will be okay without the heatmat as it can reach up to 40C• (around 104F I think) and I will put him outside (Me and my dad are planning that basking will be done for several hours in the morning, by opening the tub and closing it back whenever we want to leave the house. My dad will keep an eye on him as he basks during my school days and during weekends I would be doing it since the tub is open and my bluetongue may escape and also be vulnerable to my cat and also the crows). I would love to hear your recommendation. Also, keep in mind I won't be using heatlamps.

The Food -
Now about the food. I am planning to feed the bluetongue with Rocket leaves, pieces of carrots, smashed bananas, lizard pellets and dry catfood as the main source. I am also considering apples, chicken and grapes for treats. I would also dust them with D3 supplements every week or so. Keep in mind that buying crickets and mealworms is unlikely since my parents really hate them, but they let me have bluetongues because I told them that they also eat veggies.
Are those foods enough to make them healthy? (My relative feeds his bluetongues with shredded lettuce and mice and they look healthy).

So thank you for reading up to this. Once again, I am still considering a baby. Feedback and constructive criticism will be much appreciated. If the factors I have mentioned will not work on bluetongues, and you think I am not ready to own one, tell me. Its fine!
Thanks!!

[AndrewL]

Edit - One more question, can I house them without substrate?

With my equipment and enclosure being said, how ready do you think I am to own a bluetongue? Give me a score of 1-10, with 1 being not ready at all and 10 being super ready.

[Pandamonium]

Hello there I have read through your post

Plastic tub to house your young one should be fine but you might need to get a bigger one when it grows bigger as for heating it is required always however if you are interested and if your parents are willing you can build a tank following this video for an outside enclosure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIU-KYPFj9M as for heating heat cord on a thermostat might be better, for the location that is perfectly fine don't worry about stress too much my house also gets noisy at the moment I have a baby blotched blue tongue. As for substrate it's fine using aspen they like having something to dig under if not you can use astro turf aslong as the hidebox has some sort of substrate for digging. As for spot cleaning yes all of those things you said and yes the substrate too if the poop as touched it (skinks don't really urinate in the way we do) as for the uvb it is beneficial for them if you don't use it supplement 3-4 feeds(doing this anyway with it is good too) is necessary as for the tubes they are replaced every 6-8 months if you don't want to do this I suggest building that enclosure in the vid I linked. For food dry/wet catfood is fine all the time same with dog food(grain free) and it is healthy for them however feed the cat food to yours as a baby and dog food as an adult, as for bananas they are a treat too follow this guide for feeding https://bluetongueskinks.net/foodchart.html.

I hope that was helpful for you and if you have any questions just post them up.

[kingofnobbys]

Do lots of research and make sure you have everything in place before you buy your little BT. I think buying as little baby (about 4 - 6 weeks old is good, up to maybe 3 months) you can start off with a small viv / or 100L tub to start and worry about a bigger viv later.

No need for deep substrate to start, a few layers of paper toweling is Ok to start with baby or little juveniles. Harder for the insects to hide.

[AndrewL]

Hey

Thank you for all of your replies..They helped me..

Sorry to ask this but if the room is already warm, do I still really need a heat lamp and all that sort of stuff?
I have this idea that pops out in my mind and that is to just use my room/space heater as heating in the colder months but I, honestly never really used them. Thanks again. You guys helped.

[BD99]

G'day mate.

First off, your concept for UV is NOT what I would call acceptable. It could lead to MBD, Metabolic Bone Disease, if the liz doesn't get a good daily dose of UV. While not as sensitive as a Bearded dragon, Blue tongues DO need Uv and every day. So having him not out for months is unacceptable if you ask me.

2nd tubs can be alright, however I would say spend the time and invest into a proper enclosure that's immediately the right size. One and Done. I understand how cost can be yet I run 3 cages atm and it raises my bill by MAYBE $15 a month. The awesome thing with blue tongues is you can completely turn them off at night and its ok, so long as heat and UV are there during the 12 daylight hours.
The BIg thing I have against tubs and top open cages is that you reach down to pick them up, coming from above like a bird to eat them. With a tub, its also ripping the roof off first, which may be quite scary for them. I'd panic if a giant tore my roof off then picked me up.

I have a baby who is very afraid of the world, and if I did that to her I can guarantee my hands would be bitten and she'd superman pee all over me.

3rd. Substrate is a touchy topic for many people. I use a natural mineral bedding that does NOT cause them any harm if ingested, doesn't stick together and compact, absorbs water without swelling and is 100% compostable. Others use recycled paper. Sand, which can cause compaction. Barks and such. It is ALL up for debate, and with 3 people in the room on that you'll get 5 opinions.

I would strongly advise you look into which breed you want too, as some are more suited to a minimal life than others. Some are simple, others require insane humidity and such.

[kingofnobbys]

No good quality UVB bulb or tube , don't get a bluetongue skink , they need UVB and UVA , and they need it daily .

Some species can get away with a 5%-6% UVB 26W bulb or equivalent in a T8 or a T5HO tube , others who are tropical species require 10%-12% UVB, VERY IMPORTANT YOU & DAD DO THE HOMEWORK and determine the husbandry requirements for the species you decide to buy.
UV IS NOT OPTIONAL
Lack of sufficient UVA will result in lack of lethargy & lack of apetite & serious health issues , lack of sufficient UVB will result in VitD3 deficiency ( you can't expect to get away with VitD3 fortified calcium or reptile vitamins instead of UVB exposure ) , the lack of UVB will cause MBD and other serious health issues.

If you choose to buy a baby or a juvenile bluetongue , a 100L - 150L tub is great rearing viv for it's first year , and you are better off going to this initially with a baby or juvenile and lining it with sheets of newsprint or kitchen paper towels , very easy cleanup , easy to keep clean , no risk of impaction , and easier for little skink to find and catch his feeder insects (especially the hoppy fast movers (like roaches and crickets)) .

I use course Kritters Krumble mixed with dry gumtree leaf litter and some twigs (I collect from under my big shade tree) for my two adult bluetongues who each live in DIYS 4ft x 2ft x 2ft timber front opening vivs that I've stacked.

[kingofnobbys]

Hey

Thank you for all of your replies..They helped me..

Sorry to ask this but if the room is already warm, do I still really need a heat lamp and all that sort of stuff?
I have this idea that pops out in my mind and that is to just use my room/space heater as heating in the colder months but I, honestly never really used them. Thanks again. You guys helped.

Depends on the species :

How warm is it in the house ?

I have two captive bred eastern bluetongues and I live the natural range of the same species , so in summer I tend to only run their 26W UVB150 globes and just have a 7W heatpad under a floor tile under each of their hides , when we move into the cooler months I run an 80W par38 incandescent spotty to create a basking spot at 35oC + the 26W UVB150 (for UVA and UVB).

If you are international (outside Australia or Indonesia , so outside the natural climatic range of the bluetongue you want , you need to discuss the husbandry with the breeder ( if you are buying from a petshop , ask specific questions here , ie required basking spot temp, required warm and cool zone temps FOR YOUR PET).

I see a disturbing pattern here , no UV (dad don't want to buy buy one) , no basking globe ( guess dad don't want to buy one either) .

I'll be blunt, if your dad is not willing to or can't afford to set up your new pet bluetongue skink in a good viv with a good UVB and good basking bulb , it's likely you wont be allowed to take it to a vet if / when it gets sick / injured , that being the case, get a pet gold fish or a pet rock . If this is not the case , and you are willing to spend the dollars to set him up right and give him the care and love he deserves , then this is not directed at you.
I said that because I'm very cranky about seeing loads of pet lizards at other sites getting very sick because some kid's dad was too much of a tight wad to set up the viv properly , buy proper food for it, and refuses to pay to get it to the vet (when it inevitably gets very sick , often the pet dies from neglect).

[AndrewL]

I will try my best to persuade my dad and perhaps show all of your replies on its needs.

If my dad does not want to, I may just save some money and get them slowly throughout the year.

if nothing works, I may just get a pet marbled gecko. They are easier to keep.

So let me be honest here, no hate or anything like that, I kinda get very irritated of many care sheets and people telling me that bluetongues are low maintenance pets and are easy to care for. No. They are pretty high maintenance for me and dogs and cats are easier but more expensive to care for.

Thanks for all of your replies.

[AndrewL]

G'day mate.

First off, your concept for UV is NOT what I would call acceptable. It could lead to MBD, Metabolic Bone Disease, if the liz doesn't get a good daily dose of UV. While not as sensitive as a Bearded dragon, Blue tongues DO need Uv and every day. So having him not out for months is unacceptable if you ask me.

2nd tubs can be alright, however I would say spend the time and invest into a proper enclosure that's immediately the right size. One and Done. I understand how cost can be yet I run 3 cages atm and it raises my bill by MAYBE $15 a month. The awesome thing with blue tongues is you can completely turn them off at night and its ok, so long as heat and UV are there during the 12 daylight hours.
The BIg thing I have against tubs and top open cages is that you reach down to pick them up, coming from above like a bird to eat them. With a tub, its also ripping the roof off first, which may be quite scary for them. I'd panic if a giant tore my roof off then picked me up.

I have a baby who is very afraid of the world, and if I did that to her I can guarantee my hands would be bitten and she'd superman pee all over me.

3rd. Substrate is a touchy topic for many people. I use a natural mineral bedding that does NOT cause them any harm if ingested, doesn't stick together and compact, absorbs water without swelling and is 100% compostable. Others use recycled paper. Sand, which can cause compaction. Barks and such. It is ALL up for debate, and with 3 people in the room on that you'll get 5 opinions.

I would strongly advise you look into which breed you want too, as some are more suited to a minimal life than others. Some are simple, others require insane humidity and such.

Eastern or Blotched. I would be putting it outside everyday for several hours during feeding time. We would just put him back inside when it rains or we want to leave the house.

[alichamp]

So let me be honest here, no hate or anything like that, I kinda get very irritated of many care sheets and people telling me that bluetongues are low maintenance pets and are easy to care for. No. They are pretty high maintenance for me and dogs and cats are easier but more expensive to care for.

Hey, interesting point here.
Reptiles like blueys and snakes ARE low maintenance pets in my opinion, much more than dogs and cats. Reptiles are not companion type animals, so you won't find them waiting all day for you to get home like cats and dogs. Typically, they need to be fed only every 3 to 14 days (depending on species and age), they need 5-10 minutes a day to check over their enclosure and remove any grit and get fresh drinking water. On top of that handling 1-3 times a week is plenty for them and every now and then you'll need to give them more attention like cleaning the enclosure and helping sheds. So I definitely think they are low maintenance pets.

However, they are still pets. And they are completely dependent on us. The low maintenance stuff applies once the set up is right. This takes a lot of knowledge, research and detail to get right and knowing how to set up and what to look for. I think that mammals like cats and dogs are more intuitive to care for, because we treat them like they're like us. If we're cold they're cold, if we're hungry they're hungry, if we're lonely and want cuddles then we assume they do too. Reptiles are way less intuitive, they are very different and have different needs. That's why it's so important to know what they need and be able to provide. And yes, this includes a big commitment in time, dedication, seeking information and knowledge and money.

They are not for everyone. It comes down to what you and your fami,y want from a pet and what you're willing to commit to. Even a low maintenance pet needs commitment, dedication and care.

[kingofnobbys]

I will try my best to persuade my dad and perhaps show all of your replies on its needs.

If my dad does not want to, I may just save some money and get them slowly throughout the year.

if nothing works, I may just get a pet marbled gecko. They are easier to keep. <<<<< I am not so sure a marbled gecko will be easier to keep , being nocturnal (?) UV isn't an issue but getting the right microclimate for the gecko is going to be harder , even if they are indigenous to your location.


So let me be honest here, no hate or anything like that, I kinda get very irritated of many care sheets and people telling me that bluetongues are low maintenance pets and are easy to care for. No. They are pretty high maintenance for me and dogs and cats are easier but more expensive to care for.

Thanks for all of your replies.

[kingofnobbys]

So let me be honest here, no hate or anything like that, I kinda get very irritated of many care sheets and people telling me that bluetongues are low maintenance pets and are easy to care for. No. They are pretty high maintenance for me and dogs and cats are easier but more expensive to care for.

Hey, interesting point here.
Reptiles like blueys and snakes ARE low maintenance pets in my opinion, much more than dogs and cats. Reptiles are not companion type animals, so you won't find them waiting all day for you to get home like cats and dogs. Typically, they need to be fed only every 3 to 14 days (depending on species and age), they need 5-10 minutes a day to check over their enclosure and remove any grit and get fresh drinking water. On top of that handling 1-3 times a week is plenty for them and every now and then you'll need to give them more attention like cleaning the enclosure and helping sheds. So I definitely think they are low maintenance pets.

However, they are still pets. And they are completely dependent on us. The low maintenance stuff applies once the set up is right. This takes a lot of knowledge, research and detail to get right and knowing how to set up and what to look for. I think that mammals like cats and dogs are more intuitive to care for, because we treat them like they're like us. If we're cold they're cold, if we're hungry they're hungry, if we're lonely and want cuddles then we assume they do too. Reptiles are way less intuitive, they are very different and have different needs. That's why it's so important to know what they need and be able to provide. And yes, this includes a big commitment in time, dedication, seeking information and knowledge and money.

They are not for everyone. It comes down to what you and your fami,y want from a pet and what you're willing to commit to. Even a low maintenance pet needs commitment, dedication and care.

My pet BTs and beardies are all very much companion animals , we leave the room when one is on the floor , it'll follow us and come looking for us , and they all ask to be picked up and show they aren't keen on leaving us when getting snuggles .
I think this likely a to do with how you've raised them , if you hardly handle them or interact with them , they are essentially just semi tame or even wild if never interacted with or handled).

My beardies are like cat-dogs , and my BTs are very much like puppies behaviourwise , and all show affection and never show any aggression towards us..

[AndrewL]

So let me be honest here, no hate or anything like that, I kinda get very irritated of many care sheets and people telling me that bluetongues are low maintenance pets and are easy to care for. No. They are pretty high maintenance for me and dogs and cats are easier but more expensive to care for.

Hey, interesting point here.
Reptiles like blueys and snakes ARE low maintenance pets in my opinion, much more than dogs and cats. Reptiles are not companion type animals, so you won't find them waiting all day for you to get home like cats and dogs. Typically, they need to be fed only every 3 to 14 days (depending on species and age), they need 5-10 minutes a day to check over their enclosure and remove any grit and get fresh drinking water. On top of that handling 1-3 times a week is plenty for them and every now and then you'll need to give them more attention like cleaning the enclosure and helping sheds. So I definitely think they are low maintenance pets.

However, they are still pets. And they are completely dependent on us. The low maintenance stuff applies once the set up is right. This takes a lot of knowledge, research and detail to get right and knowing how to set up and what to look for. I think that mammals like cats and dogs are more intuitive to care for, because we treat them like they're like us. If we're cold they're cold, if we're hungry they're hungry, if we're lonely and want cuddles then we assume they do too. Reptiles are way less intuitive, they are very different and have different needs. That's why it's so important to know what they need and be able to provide. And yes, this includes a big commitment in time, dedication, seeking information and knowledge and money.

They are not for everyone. It comes down to what you and your fami,y want from a pet and what you're willing to commit to. Even a low maintenance pet needs commitment, dedication and care.

My pet BTs and beardies are all very much companion animals , we leave the room when one is on the floor , it'll follow us and come looking for us , and they all ask to be picked up and show they aren't keen on leaving us when getting snuggles .
I think this likely a to do with how you've raised them , if you hardly handle them or interact with them , they are essentially just semi tame or even wild if never interacted with or handled).

My beardies are like cat-dogs , and my BTs are very much like puppies behaviourwise , and all show affection and never show any aggression towards us..

Yep this is true. Reptiles aren't like cats and dogs but with proper bonding, they can interact with us like cats and dogs.

[AndrewL]

I will try my best to persuade my dad and perhaps show all of your replies on its needs.

If my dad does not want to, I may just save some money and get them slowly throughout the year.

if nothing works, I may just get a pet marbled gecko. They are easier to keep. <<<<< I am not so sure a marbled gecko will be easier to keep , being nocturnal (?) UV isn't an issue but getting the right microclimate for the gecko is going to be harder , even if they are indigenous to your location.


So let me be honest here, no hate or anything like that, I kinda get very irritated of many care sheets and people telling me that bluetongues are low maintenance pets and are easy to care for. No. They are pretty high maintenance for me and dogs and cats are easier but more expensive to care for.

Thanks for all of your replies.

That may be one thing I need to worry about. Food is also quite an issue but should be fine. Overall, they are pretty much quite simple to keep according to caresheets and stuff. I checked a few on a local pet store. They kept it in a glass terrarium with a small heat pad underneath.

[AndrewL]

So let me be honest here, no hate or anything like that, I kinda get very irritated of many care sheets and people telling me that bluetongues are low maintenance pets and are easy to care for. No. They are pretty high maintenance for me and dogs and cats are easier but more expensive to care for.

Hey, interesting point here.
Reptiles like blueys and snakes ARE low maintenance pets in my opinion, much more than dogs and cats. Reptiles are not companion type animals, so you won't find them waiting all day for you to get home like cats and dogs. Typically, they need to be fed only every 3 to 14 days (depending on species and age), they need 5-10 minutes a day to check over their enclosure and remove any grit and get fresh drinking water. On top of that handling 1-3 times a week is plenty for them and every now and then you'll need to give them more attention like cleaning the enclosure and helping sheds. So I definitely think they are low maintenance pets.

However, they are still pets. And they are completely dependent on us. The low maintenance stuff applies once the set up is right. This takes a lot of knowledge, research and detail to get right and knowing how to set up and what to look for. I think that mammals like cats and dogs are more intuitive to care for, because we treat them like they're like us. If we're cold they're cold, if we're hungry they're hungry, if we're lonely and want cuddles then we assume they do too. Reptiles are way less intuitive, they are very different and have different needs. That's why it's so important to know what they need and be able to provide. And yes, this includes a big commitment in time, dedication, seeking information and knowledge and money.

They are not for everyone. It comes down to what you and your fami,y want from a pet and what you're willing to commit to. Even a low maintenance pet needs commitment, dedication and care.

I agree with you that they aren't for everyone. I always wanted to be a reptile enthusiast /collector one day and my uncle keeps and breeds turtles in Indonesia, where I originally came from. Keeping reptiles in my uncle's house isn't an issue, since he has alot if empty space, money, ponds, and a big backyard. I want to gain experience in reptiles by owning them, but the issue is that my parents are really simple in terms of this, so they won't buy me a bluetongue or any other reptile unless I use my own money on its food, enclosure and general care which will not be enough after a few months. I guess a bluetongue isn't a pet for me.

[kingofnobbys]

I will try my best to persuade my dad and perhaps show all of your replies on its needs.

If my dad does not want to, I may just save some money and get them slowly throughout the year.

if nothing works, I may just get a pet marbled gecko. They are easier to keep. <<<<< I am not so sure a marbled gecko will be easier to keep , being nocturnal (?) UV isn't an issue but getting the right microclimate for the gecko is going to be harder , even if they are indigenous to your location.


So let me be honest here, no hate or anything like that, I kinda get very irritated of many care sheets and people telling me that bluetongues are low maintenance pets and are easy to care for. No. They are pretty high maintenance for me and dogs and cats are easier but more expensive to care for.

Thanks for all of your replies.

That may be one thing I need to worry about. Food is also quite an issue but should be fine. Overall, they are pretty much quite simple to keep according to caresheets and stuff. I checked a few on a local pet store. They kept it in a glass terrarium with a small heat pad underneath.

Pet shops are not good places to get advise on how to keep any reptile , and how they keep their live stock is not in any way an indication of even remotely adequate husbandry.

[AndrewL]

That may be one thing I need to worry about. Food is also quite an issue but should be fine. Overall, they are pretty much quite simple to keep according to caresheets and stuff. I checked a few on a local pet store. They kept it in a glass terrarium with a small heat pad underneath.

Pet shops are not good places to get advise on how to keep any reptile , and how they keep their live stock is not in any way an indication of even remotely adequate husbandry.

I did not get my information from petshops, but from care sheets and threads made online. I agree with you with the fact that sometimes petshops keep reptiles cramped together with inappropriate husbandry or care. I just came there to see the geckoes.

[BD99]

G'day mate.

First off, your concept for UV is NOT what I would call acceptable. It could lead to MBD, Metabolic Bone Disease, if the liz doesn't get a good daily dose of UV. While not as sensitive as a Bearded dragon, Blue tongues DO need Uv and every day. So having him not out for months is unacceptable if you ask me.

2nd tubs can be alright, however I would say spend the time and invest into a proper enclosure that's immediately the right size. One and Done. I understand how cost can be yet I run 3 cages atm and it raises my bill by MAYBE $15 a month. The awesome thing with blue tongues is you can completely turn them off at night and its ok, so long as heat and UV are there during the 12 daylight hours.
The BIg thing I have against tubs and top open cages is that you reach down to pick them up, coming from above like a bird to eat them. With a tub, its also ripping the roof off first, which may be quite scary for them. I'd panic if a giant tore my roof off then picked me up.

I have a baby who is very afraid of the world, and if I did that to her I can guarantee my hands would be bitten and she'd superman pee all over me.

3rd. Substrate is a touchy topic for many people. I use a natural mineral bedding that does NOT cause them any harm if ingested, doesn't stick together and compact, absorbs water without swelling and is 100% compostable. Others use recycled paper. Sand, which can cause compaction. Barks and such. It is ALL up for debate, and with 3 people in the room on that you'll get 5 opinions.

I would strongly advise you look into which breed you want too, as some are more suited to a minimal life than others. Some are simple, others require insane humidity and such.

Eastern or Blotched. I would be putting it outside everyday for several hours during feeding time. We would just put him back inside when it rains or we want to leave the house.

Still. If you're not able to give it 100% the proper set up and care then I advise AGAINST it. I keep Easterns and I would NOT go without their heat. Even in an outdoor enclosure you need a basking lamp slotted in for MAX heat.