New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

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delfiend
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New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

Postby delfiend » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:07 pm

Hey guys!! I'm Madison aka delfiend, and I just got my first BTS after the past few months of researching about them and their care! :) As I've learned taking care of my other lizard species, no matter how much I may read up on care, I always have a lot of questions once I actually bring home my new reptile. In accordance, I have a couple specific questions about BTS care, and I would be very grateful if you could help me answer them!

First off, this is my new buddy, Griffin McElroy (or just Griffin)!!!

ImageImage

And yes, I bought him at this size. You see, the story behind Griffin is this: after looking into BTS and deciding I was able to care for one, I started to look at breeders. I found a couple people recommended by other reptile breeders I knew and trusted, but most were either no longer breeding BTS, not currently breeding BTS, or had reserved all expected babies for their 2017 breeding season. I found one or two people selling, but their prices were extremely steep, and while I very much wanted to buy, I wasn't sure my wallet could take the blow, as I only work part-time when I'm not enrolled in university. Thing is, I work at a very wonderful pet store chain, with an extremely comprehensive and dedicated staff and above-and-beyond animal care policies. I, personally, am more often than not responsible for caring for the reptiles in my store on a daily basis. Our head of companion animals, after listening to me lament about my difficult luck finding a BTS, informed me that our particular store is in business with a BTS breeder, and that he could contact them and see if they have any BTS they could send to our store. The price of BTS at our store was also a third of what it seemed to be with most breeders, so that certainly piqued my interest. The breeder did indeed have BTS for sale, and our head of companion animals put in an order for a single BTS for me. They had ordered BTS before, and one of my employee pals was telling me all about how cute and adorable the little baby BTS were. Well, a week later the skink shows up, and he's HUGE!!! I mean, not full grown to any extent, but certainly much bigger than the babies our store had received the last time they ordered BTS. I didn't mind, obviously, as clearly I still bought Griffin, and he's an absolutely fabulous skink with the attitude of an angel and the appetite of a wild beast. Still, I'm left with a lot of questions about his age, his past care, and even his species. I'm almost certain he's an I.J. as he was labeled "Tiliqua sp." in the order form (though that could very well be our store system being too lazy to distinguish the different BTS species from one another. I know they don't distinguish their hermit crab species). He also came in a bit on the skinny side (his hip bones were pretty prominent), but has since gotten to what I think is a pretty healthy weight for his size.


So that's the story behind Griffin. Here's his set up:

Image

It's only a 20 gal long (since I was expecting to buy a much smaller skink), but I shouldn't have any issues financially upgrading him here very soon (I custom built my bearded dragon a 4 ft x 2 ft cage a while back, and I plan to build an identical habitat for my BTS). Originally, I had a big piece of cork bark in their with him, but it took up almost half of the tank length-wise and the entire tank width-wise. And since Griffin just burrowed under the substrate anyways for shelter, I decided to take it out to give him more room to roam about. I'm a bit torn about the substrate, as I've found the paper rodent fluff to be very dusty. Griffin sneezes when burrowing, and when I extract him from his tunnels, he's usually coated with a layer of the dust. Suggestions are more than appreciated in all areas, but if anyone had experienced any real issues with this sort of substrate, I would really like to hear about it. Griffin personally seems to love it, though, despite the dust. He's also got his water dish there, which I've seen him drink from once, but never really again. And that's pretty much it for his set up. I know it's very mundane, so I try and take him out and let him roam around in BTS-safe sections of my room, and even in the basement or outside a few times, just for the extra little enrichment. He spends most of his time either eating, basking, or buried/sleeping anyways.


Okay, so here's the part where I'm really looking for some advice. It's about what to feed him and, more specifically, how often to feed him.

So I know the whole rule about feeding (for juveniles) about 50% protein, 40% veg/greens, and no more than 10% fruit. Currently, on the veg/greens & fruit side of things, I've been feeding Griffin a mix of mush-consistency butternut squash (he loves it), finely chopped escarole (not his fav, but if it's still in his bowl after breakfast he'll eat it for lunch), a little bit of applesauce (he loves it; it's not for every meal though), blueberries as treats, watermelon one night (he was okay with it, but pretty picky about which pieces he would eat and which he spat back out). Obviously, I'll branch out, but seeing as I've only had Griffin for 6 days now, I've been working with what I already had in the fridge for both my bearded dragon and myself. On the protein side of things, Griffin ate a couple Dubia roaches at two sperate sittings now, but for the most part he's eating super high-quality canned dog food. I made sure to pick out stuff that was lean protein, grain free, and potato free (I think 1 or 2 may have Potato or Potato Starch low in the ingredients list). I also tried to pick stuff with veggies high up on the ingredients too, so that even his protein isn't all protein and no veg. I picked out a few different brands and formulas to try out for the meantime. Here's what I bought and have tried with Griffin (he's eaten the first 3 and loved them; has yet to try the other two):

Merrick Classic Grain-Free Puppy Plate Recipe
[Ingredients: Deboned Turkey, Chicken Broth, Chicken, Duck, Peas, Sweet Potato, Carrots, Apples, Potato, Dried Egg Product, Natural Chicken Flavor, Carrageenan, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate), Guar Gum, Salt, Sodium Phosphate, Cassia Gum, Canola Oil, Olive Oil, Flax Oil, Minerals (Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Glucoheptonate, Sodium Selenite), Thyme, Sage, Rosemary, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Lecithin]

Solid Gold Grain Free & Gluten Free Mighty Mini™ With Chicken, Chickpea & Pumpkin Recipe (I removed the chickpeas out of caution)
[Ingredients: Chicken, Chicken Broth, Water Sufficient for Processing, Chicken Liver, Dried Egg Whites, Potato Starch, Peas, Chickpeas, Pumpkin, Carrots, Guar Gum, Sodium Phosphate, Salt, Natural Flavor, Fish Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Canola Oil, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Xanthan Gum, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Thiamine Mononitrate, Cobalt Proteinate, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Rosemary Extract]

Natural Balance Delectable Delights™ Grain-Free Chicken & Tuna with Pumpkin and Green Beans
[Ingredients: Chicken, Chicken Broth, Pumpkin, Tuna, Green Beans, Sunflower Oil, Tricalcium Phosphate, Guar Gum, Calcium Sulfate, Salt, Natural Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Glycine Complex, Iron Glycine Complex, Copper Glycine Complex, Manganese Glycine Complex, Potassium Iodide), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Choline Chloride]

Under the Sun Grain-Free with Chicken and Peas
[Ingredients: Chicken Broth, Chicken, Turkey, Chicken Liver, Dried Peas, Peas, Dicalcium Phosphate, Cassia Gum, Guar Gum, Xanthan Gum, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Natural Flavor, Minerals (Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Potassium Iodide), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Choline Chloride, Menhaden Fish Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Rosemary Extract]

Instinct by Nature's Variety Healthy Cravings Grain-Free Real Chicken Dog Food Topper
[Ingredients: Chicken Broth, Chicken, Chicken Liver, Eggs, Pea Flour, Natural Flavor, Sodium Phosphate, Guar Gum, Salt, Sodium Carbonate, Dl-Methionine}



I feel perfectly fine feeding these foods to him in combination with his greens and vegetables and occasional fruits. The problem is, I don't know how often to feed him. Because he was underweight when I first got him on Friday (6 days ago), I fed him only the dog food for the first two days (granted, it has vegetables in it, but not like a bunch). He got 2 meals a day, which was more like 3 because he tended to eat his leftovers from breakfast at about lunch time, right before I would remove the dish and clean it in preparation for an upcoming dinner. From what I've read, people suggest feeding juveniles every other day, but I wasn't sure if that was purely to inspire an appetite to eat their greens/veg, or if that was because they didn't need to eat too much. Obviously, I'll cut back if Griffin ends up becoming overweight, but I also don't want to restrict him unnecessarily. Some advice here would be greately appreciated! :)

Currently, now that he's on a better eating schedule, Griffin gets a breakfast of all greens/veg (with usually a dash of applesauce or topped with a few pieces of fruit). It's usually a big helping, in total about 1.5 tbsp to 2 tbsp. He tends to eat the stuff he likes, takes a nap, and then at some point in the afternoon / early evening, he eats the rest (the food dish isn't near the heat lamp, so the food doesn't bake or spoil in that time period). For dinner, I usually just give him straight up dog food. A few times during his "lunch", I've fed him appropriately sized roaches (I feed these earlier so he has a longer time to digest their exoskeletons, compared to digesting mushy dog food). Is he getting too much to eat? Or will only time tell when/if he puts on too much weight?


Lastly, I'm just a bit confused on the topic of humidity. Most care sheets I've read say around 20% for Northerns and more like 40 - 45% for IJ, but then on many forums most people don't seem to worry about humidity too much for either species. With the substrate I'm currently using being so utterly dry, I'm just wondering if humidity really is a big deal. And if so, if a humid hide would suffice, or would a more water-resistance substrate be needed so I can mist the tank and provide higher humidity all over.


In the end, super glad to have Griffin in my life now, and to be a part of the BTS community here!!! :D :D Thanks in advance for any and all comments/advice! Can't wait to hear from you all! :)
Last edited by delfiend on Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:19 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

Postby tbets » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:30 am

Hi and welcome!

I actually just purchased a baby northern BTS a little over 2 weeks ago and I absolutely love him, your IJ is a very nice looking one as well!. So getting into some of your questions, I think it's good that you are feeding him like you are. Since he's underweight, he really should be eating more to get his weight up to a nice healthy one. Especially considering he's still a juvenile and still in the process of growing, it's important for him to have access to plenty of protein and greens. Also, I may have missed this while reading, but do you have any calcium powder for his food to supplement that? This is very important.

As for substrate, since you have an IJ, I recommend a substrate like coconut husk/fiber, cypress mulch, etc. because those tend to hold humidity much better. If the humidity isn't high enough then your BTS will most likely have an issue with shedding. Also good to know that you don't plan on keeping him in that 20 gallon long for the long term. Other than that you just need to make sure temperatures are ok and you should have a nice happy'healthy BTS!
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Re: New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

Postby delfiend » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:00 am

tbets wrote:Also, I may have missed this while reading, but do you have any calcium powder for his food to supplement that? This is very important.


Hi!! Thank you for your reply!!! :)

Yes, sorry, I totally forgot to mention it! I'm using Rep-Cal Calcium with Vitamin D3 as my calcium supplement and Rep-Cal Multivitamin with Beta Carotene as my multivitamin supplement. I used these when raising my bearded dragon from a teeny tiny baby with fantastic results, so they're definitely some of my favorite reptile products in general!!

As for using them, every other day I mix a little bit of the calcium and the multivitamin into a bit of unsweetened applesauce, and then make sure to coat his veg and greens in the supplement-infused applesauce. If I run out of applesauce at some point or juet decide to cut back on it, I plan to mix the supplements into the gravy/liquids of the dog food.

tbets wrote:As for substrate, since you have an IJ, I recommend a substrate like coconut husk/fiber, cypress mulch, etc. because those tend to hold humidity much better. If the humidity isn't high enough then your BTS will most likely have an issue with shedding


Now, is it just shedding, or is this a matter of respiratory health as well? If its shedding, I can understand keeping the paper substrate so long as I provide a humid hide. That makes sense to me. But I'm still a little confused as to if IJ need humidity because they come from a humid environment naturally and thus physically need higher levels of humidty to be healthy, such as tegus and crested geckos and most all tropical frogs? (I have dart frogs myself, who need constant 80% - 100% humidity, so I'm no newbie to the humidty game).

Just curious is all. Obviously, if the general consensus is "IJs need a substrate that will support higher humidity", then consider it done. I'd still love some answers, though. :)
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Re: New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

Postby tbets » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:08 am

Very good to know! I just remembered that you mentioned owning a bearded dragon so you probably knew about the calcium.

Most places I've read tend to say that giving calcium 2 times a week or every third feeding, depending on how often a BTS is fed, is good. Then for multivitamin, I read that giving it once a week is a good idea.
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Re: New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

Postby Janella » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:35 am

Hi and welcome to our forum! Griffin is absolutely adorable, but looks more like a Merauke to me then an IJ. If he is a Merauke he also will need a higher humidity. This is due to them coming from an area that has higher levels of humidity. I would recommend a larger enclosure as soon as possible and provide at least 2 hides. One on the cool side and one on the warm side. You can even do a humid hide as you mentioned. Even now in his smaller enclosure, I would offer him something to hide in. They just love burrowing and hiding. It helps make them feel secure. I would switch to a substrate that holds moisture better such as jungle mix, ecoearth, cocofibers, etc. I personally use jungle mix with reptibark on top. This way once a week i can pour about 16 oz of water on it to help with humidity. As his diet, it seems like you are feeding correctly the right foods and supplements, but I would just add in more dark leafy greens such as collard, mustard greens, etc. The amount you feed depends really on exactly how underweight he really is. Also his age. He doesn't look to bad by the pictures, so I would feed every other day, once a day about 1tbs. I am typing this fast since I am at work and on a quick break, but if you have any further questions just ask. I also have a Merauke and just love him!
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Re: New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

Postby splashy07 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:23 am

Yes, Merauke. And ditto what Janella posted! Best of luck with your new friend.
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Re: New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

Postby tbets » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:07 pm

delfiend wrote:
tbets wrote:Also, I may have missed this while reading, but do you have any calcium powder for his food to supplement that? This is very important.


Hi!! Thank you for your reply!!! :)

Yes, sorry, I totally forgot to mention it! I'm using Rep-Cal Calcium with Vitamin D3 as my calcium supplement and Rep-Cal Multivitamin with Beta Carotene as my multivitamin supplement. I used these when raising my bearded dragon from a teeny tiny baby with fantastic results, so they're definitely some of my favorite reptile products in general!!

As for using them, every other day I mix a little bit of the calcium and the multivitamin into a bit of unsweetened applesauce, and then make sure to coat his veg and greens in the supplement-infused applesauce. If I run out of applesauce at some point or juet decide to cut back on it, I plan to mix the supplements into the gravy/liquids of the dog food.

tbets wrote:As for substrate, since you have an IJ, I recommend a substrate like coconut husk/fiber, cypress mulch, etc. because those tend to hold humidity much better. If the humidity isn't high enough then your BTS will most likely have an issue with shedding


Now, is it just shedding, or is this a matter of respiratory health as well? If its shedding, I can understand keeping the paper substrate so long as I provide a humid hide. That makes sense to me. But I'm still a little confused as to if IJ need humidity because they come from a humid environment naturally and thus physically need higher levels of humidty to be healthy, such as tegus and crested geckos and most all tropical frogs? (I have dart frogs myself, who need constant 80% - 100% humidity, so I'm no newbie to the humidty game).

Just curious is all. Obviously, if the general consensus is "IJs need a substrate that will support higher humidity", then consider it done. I'd still love some answers, though. :)


I don't believe it serves much more of a purpose other than shedding honestly. Their scales can also become very rough and dry out too much if the humidity is low. I've heard some people say that higher humidity for the lower humidity thriving BTS causes respiratory infections but not sure how accurate that info is. The care sheet on here says that IJs need 60% humidity or higher, which isn't too bad (classic Indos and Meraukes need 80% and higher to thrive). Good part about BTS is that they're very hardy lizards and are forgiving if the conditions aren't spot on.
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Re: New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

Postby delfiend » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:19 pm

Thanks for all the replies!!! :D

I went ahead and bought some coconut fiber and repti-bark while I was at work, and switched out Griffin's substrate when I got home.

Image

He seems to be burying himself just as easily as before, and now the humidity will certainly be easier to increase should he need it to be high.

As for his upgrade, now knowing that he's looking to be a Merauke (I did a little google myself while I was on break, and I totally agree; the Meraukes look just like him!!) I've already made plans to go buy my building materials tomorrow while I have the day off. The actual construction of the custom cage isn't too terribly labor intensive after I get all the panels cut to size, so I should be able to have Griffin upgraded into his new 4 ft x 2 ft home before July is over! It would be sooner except for a short vacation taking up the end of the following week and into the next.


Thanks for everyone's help and advice, especially in helping to identify Griffin's species!!! :) If anyone has any more to add, I'll be more than grateful to hear it!
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Re: New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

Postby Janella » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:25 pm

Looks like Griffin is happy with his new substrate. I would add some sort of hide still though. They just love to hide and burrow. That is wonderful you can build your own enclosure. Remember the bigger the better with these guys. Definitely send us pictures when you get it done. He sure looks like a happy guy.
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Re: New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

Postby Ohgeez » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:27 pm

What a sweet sweet lookin boy ;) I'm actually listening to MBMBaM at this very moment lol.
Can't wait to see the finished product of his enclosure!
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Re: New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:25 am

Consider moving the UVB tube UNDER the mesh lid .

What is the uvb tube ? the distance to the tube is strongly dependent on the TYPE , and %UVB rating and w/ or w/out reflector.

Looking at your picture of his viv , it seems you have a reflectorless luminaire for the UVB tube .
1) it appears to be a LONG WAY away from where her will be basking , in general , unless the BT can get to the optimal distance from the UVB tube , he will never receive the UVA & UVB he needs to be healthy
2) it is trying to throw UV through a mesh/screen lid.


I suggest

>>> move the tube's fitting and the UVB tube is in so it is UNDER the mesh lid , this will have numerous benefits
benefit 1 : the BTS will get plenty of UVA and UVB , so it can properly metabolise it's dietary calcium to produce it's requirements of VitD3 and it will receive adequate UVA which will help with it's wellness
benefit 2 : the mesh screen will be blocking (effectively shading) about 30% of the UVA and UVB emitted by the tube (BAD) so mounting under the lid will produce a immediate increase in UVA and UVB
benefit 3 : the UVB tube is currently so far away from the BTs basking spot that it is effectlvely useless to him (he's receiving so little UV that he to all intents does not have a UV globe at all) mounting the UV globe under the mesh will move it considerably closer to the BTs basking spot and result in great improvement in his wellness and health
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Re: New BTS Owner, and I've Got A Couple Qs!

Postby splashy07 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:50 am

And...definitely get him something to hide in, even if you just make something temporary. Exposed lizards tend to stress. Wish we were neighbors, I have loads of them!

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