Humidity

[chaosapiant]

I've read a few books on BTS's, surfed forums and the internet, and asked my local pet stores as well about the proper humidity levels for BTSs. And I feel I still don't know the answer. FIrst of all, can I assume that all discussions regarding humidity are referring to "relative" humidity? And if so, what should it be? I keep my Indo's tank around 40% and that requires basically no effort what-so-ever. I live on the east coast of the US in a temperate area, not too far from DC. I've seen some folks on here talk about 80% humidity, and i've seen caresheets saying as low as 25% is fine too. I know Indos requires higher humidity. What is the actual number range required for blue tongue skinks, and are we indeed referring to relative humidity? I also keep a tank of carribean and equadorian hermit crabs, and their humidity reqs are 70-80 percent relative humidity, and their tank requires a great deal of effort to maintain that level of humidity. TIA!

[Dakota]

I've been waiting for a response here, but no one seems to have time — I suppose.

For the sake of the health of your Halmahera, I suggest you view this recent thread — it explains WHY we keep humidity elevated, and why 40% is not appropriate.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29294

And yes, when talking about humidity, we are speaking of relative humidity — percentages.

Hope this helps. Maybe someone will chime in soon on a more advance answer concerning internal microfloral disruptions, capillary health, ophthalmic irritation, etc.

[Susann]

Maybe someone will chime in soon on a more advance answer concerning internal microfloral disruptions, capillary health, ophthalmic irritation, etc.

Well, until someone does, how about we leave it in the General Discussion forum?

[jesswebb93]

In terms of relative humidity for each subspecies, I think it helps to research the relative humidity in the area that you would find them in the wild. For example, sources say that the relative humidity in Papua New Guinea and Indonesia is in the 70-90% range. So if that's what they thrive in in the wild, then we should try to replicate that as best as we can.

This can be done through regular misting, keeping a large water bowl at the cool end of the enclosure with a rag on top of the lid to keep humidity in, using a substrate that holds moisture well (I like to use moss), a humidifier etc. Hope this helps a bit

[alichamp]

The actual number of required humidity depends on species. Australian species of bts (easterns, blotched, northerns) don't need particularly high levels of humidity. Therefore, because I only have this type (being in Aus) I have no first hand experience of high humidity requirements. But the following information I've learned from other experienced members over my time on this forum.

Those bts that do need high humidity are the Indonesian species (indos, merauke, Irian Jaya). For them, 50-60% is considered best. The exception to this is Halmaheras, even though they also are indos, they need much higher humidity at 70-80+% (as jesswebb93 above stated).

The recent thread that Dakota linked to above discusses a lot of this. You can also find information in the FAQs and specific species threads.

Where high enough levels of humidity are not maintained we have seen on this thread and the more experienced members have seen very very sick skinks that can die if not treated and if husbandry is not corrected. You can type "mystery illness" into the search box above to see what's going on here. Susann had posted a bit about this previously, including the kind of medication shots she had found to help. This may give you an indication of what health issues they get with chronic unsatisfactory low levels of humidity.

Is what you've got in this thread the type of information you were after chaosapiant? Or are we missing something?

[chaosapiant]

Thank you everyone for the quick and informative replies. I've ordered a Monsoon R400 misting system for my skink's tank. However, one thing i'd note is that the relative humdity of their natural habitat can't be or shouldnt be such an influential factor. We should also consider the animal's behavior. For example, my skink comes out every morning and basks under the heat and light of a mercury vapor bulb. Even with liberal misting, he will constantly be dryer underneath that lamp than say, if he were a nocturnal species. I also think too high humidity is as bad if not worse than too low, as it can cause bacterial growth as well as cause respiratory issues. I'm by no means an expert on skinks but am experienced with other reptile species. These are just my two cents though.

[alichamp]

However, one thing i'd note is that the relative humdity of their natural habitat can't be or shouldnt be such an influential factor.

I'm very surprised by this statement. I would have thought this would be one of the driving influential factors in setting up an enclosure for captivity. They are perfectly adapted to thrive in these high humid environments. Why would that change all of a sudden with captivity? Especially as most are wild imports from their natural environment anyhow, meaning that there has been no chance through line breeding for this to change. Even if such evolutionary changes could occur in so few generations.

We should also consider the animal's behavior. For example, my skink comes out every morning and basks under the heat and light of a mercury vapor bulb. Even with liberal misting, he will constantly be dryer underneath that lamp than say, if he were a nocturnal species.

I'm sorry, I've missed your point here. Why does this mean that he should not be given the options for humidity within the rest of his enclosure? Many keepers offer a humid hide too, which is kept at the warm end of the tank. Even though they are not nocturnal, it is unusual for them to stay in the same spot all day, they switch between basking, shade, humid hides, and digging.

I also think too high humidity is as bad if not worse than too low, as it can cause bacterial growth as well as cause respiratory issues. I'm by no means an expert on skinks but am experienced with other reptile species. These are just my two cents though.

I think most (if not all) experienced keepers on this forum would disagree. As long as you are humidifying the air and not creating wet soggy substrate this is the aim. As I said above, serious respiratory issues and illnesses for humid loving species of BTS are observed when they are kept in environment of humidity that is too low. I hope you look at the links provided above and do a search of the forum to read up on this before you decide entirely.

[chaosapiant]

I'm not saying natural environment isn't important, because it is. I'm just saying we also weigh in the effects of an animal's behaviors. Another example is leopard geckos. Leopard Geckos live in rocky/desert environments with lots of dry heat and sunshine. Yet we provide them with a hide that has humidity for shedding, and often most keepers (myself included) do NOT provide UVB lighting, as it is hardly beneficial to them, even though they have sunlight in abundance in the wild. Why? Because they are nocturnal. In other words, at least to me, it's not just what the environment provides an animal, but also what the animal takes from the environment.

[jesswebb93]

I also think too high humidity is as bad if not worse than too low, as it can cause bacterial growth as well as cause respiratory issues. I'm by no means an expert on skinks but am experienced with other reptile species. These are just my two cents though.

Bacterial growth is only really a problem if the substrate is kept wet constantly. If it is allowed to dry out between mistings, then it shouldn't be a problem. I also don't think they would be at risk for respiratory infections if the humidity is high and they are a high humidity loving species, since that's how they would live and thrive in the wild. Just my opinion

[Dakota]

There seems to be a lot of disputing against having high humidity lately, which I suppose is not a bad thing. Have you seen what Halmaheras look straight out of the wild? Have you seen what Halmaheras look like raised in captivity from a neonate? They look drastically different most of the time. Wild Halmaheras are shiny; their scales are as smooth as glass. You don't really feel individual scales when you rub their heads. When they are raised in captivity, this is quite opposite for the most part. Often you will see they have rugose, heavily corrugated scales. The rugoseness is theorized to be associated with protein intake, and the corrugation being associated with lower humidity. Countless times have people rescued Tiliqua gigas with such scales to be fixed simply with a good diet and high humidity, no vet needed in a lot of cases. I can attach pictures of a Halmahera that was kept long term with low humidity, and it is awful. I have been avoiding posting it due to how morbid it looks, but I'm starting to think people need to see what happens when they aren't kept properly. It was taken in by a licensed rescue, and it ultimately died due to how severe his conditions were. This animal was supposed to come to me once it was cleared by the rescue.

If mold/bacterial growth is of concern, consider using peat moss as a substrate medium.

[alichamp]

I'm not saying natural environment isn't important, because it is. I'm just saying we also weigh in the effects of an animal's behaviors. Another example is leopard geckos. Leopard Geckos live in rocky/desert environments with lots of dry heat and sunshine. Yet we provide them with a hide that has humidity for shedding, and often most keepers (myself included) do NOT provide UVB lighting, as it is hardly beneficial to them, even though they have sunlight in abundance in the wild. Why? Because they are nocturnal.

Even nocturnal animals can benefit from short periods of uv light exposure at dawn and dusk. Even though they are nocturnal they still need enough calcium to prevent metabolic bone disease. This can be provided through diet supplementation of calcium +d3 and/or short exposures. Obviously the levels will need to be appropriate for the particular animal so they don't get too much (as they are nocturnal they will have a sensitivity to too much uv).

As you know, keepers choose which method to provide this, but it still must be provided. Over in this thread is a case of a Leopard Gecko that did not have its uv/calcium needs met and developed severe mbd. It's heartbreaking to see but it's possible. Even though it's nocturnal.

In other words, at least to me, it's not just what the environment provides an animal, but also what the animal takes from the environment.

Oh, OK. I get it. The aim of keeping though is to provide as far as possible the care and environment that meets the requirements that they have adapted to receive from the wild. Im not saying that they can only be kept in something that completely mimics the wild to thrive. For example, BTS thrive on a diet of dog food and supplementary fruits/vegetables because it meets their nutritional needs without having to source exactly what they would eat in the wild. We can supplement with calcium+d3 and provide day/night light cycles and uvb light to meet their requirements there. In the wild, they might like to dig and take cover in leaf litter and dirt, but we can provide a substitute substrate that does a similar thing and retains humidity without needing to collect Indonesian rainforest (or, in my case, rushing out to collect piles of dirt and leaf litter from out bush).

But we have to know what their needs are and provide OPTIONS so the animal has the ABILITY to take what it needs from the environment. They can't take it if we don't provide it. And there's really no alternative (yet) to appropriately high levels of humidity in the air for a humid loving species. Just because they can survive a while on too low levels of humidity because they are reasonably adaptable doesn't mean they thrive in that environment. And they WILL develop health issues down the track if it is not corrected.

I can attach pictures of a Halmahera that was kept long term with low humidity, and it is awful. I have been avoiding posting it due to how morbid it looks, but I'm starting to think people need to see what happens when they aren't kept properly. It was taken in by a licensed rescue, and it ultimately died due to how severe his conditions were. This animal was supposed to come to me once it was cleared by the rescue.

Dakota, there are photos like these on the forum - we link to relevant threads and a search of "mystery illness" also brings up these kinds of images and stories as we suggest when we post a reply. It really is awful. But perhaps people don't click the links to these things? So I'm starting to think along the same lines.

[Dakota]

Meet Murlock. Kept in chronic low humidity and was starved. RIP.

poor.jpg

Here is one of my Halmaheras that I raised in high humidity - in the middle of the sloughing process. Notice how smooth the scales are. She actually developed some crust in her nostrils from where I increased the ventilation in her enclosure to mount a light fixture (got down to 60%, even with spraying). Thankfully I caught it in time, and closed up the spot I modified making the humidity go back to 80%. No more crust to be seen.

Alice1_01.png

[chaosapiant]

Thank you everyone for all your help! Those pictures are also a great wakeup call. My halmahera is very smooth, but i'd never want him to look that way at all. While I have my own opinions on the matter, I am going to concede the point and take some advice from those with much more BTS keeping experience. My R400 Monsoon mister should be here tomorow, in fact! Thank you again everyine for being polite, courteous, and most of all informative!

[alichamp]

Thanks so much chaosapiant for being so open to discussion also. I think it's such an important discussion to have and we are only here to help people to keep their skinks in the best way possible. So they can enjoy them and have them for a happy long life. Having this kind of thread up will hopefully help others who come along and read it later too. There is not really a lot known about keeping BTS and many people get really bad advice from different sources (including pet shops in particular) especially for Halmaheras, so this is a great place to get advice and help.

All the best and I hope you stick around.

[Dakota]

That's great to hear! I am glad for these recent discussions actually. I think it is a good foundation for people to see why we offer the things we do, rather than being told to offer the things we do.

[Susann]

Very good points made all around.
I think alichamp is 100% right on the money with her comment of providing our animals with OPTIONS. Don't make their whole living surface too soggy or too dry; give them the options to be able to place themselves in the environment that has the conditions they need when they need them.