Please advise, I'm stumped!

[dustypaws]

Morning/evening everyone. I have a Merauke we lovingly call Ard who has been not acting right for the past week or so. I will give you guys the stats on his enclosure and his diet first:
He is in the largest Exo-Terra glass enclosure with a Zoo Med heat lamp on one side and a Reptisun UVB 10.0 located in the rear which is changed between 6 and 10 months. I have the Mist King misting system which we manually activate during the day. His substrate consists of Reptibark along with shredded newspaper which he loves to burrow in. Under that is reptile cage carpet. I have many climbing rocks (higher ones under the heat source) along with a 1/2 log, water bowl, large bark branch and some vines to increase the shade on the cool side. I check the cage temps with a temp gun: Basking=89-91 Cage=84-85 Cool=77. I feed him weekly and it is the items listed on this site (I even carry a laminated copy in my purse) He gets an occasional scrambled egg, banana, and a small portion of meat if we are eating any for dinner. I believe he is between 10 and 12 years old. He was just weighed at the vets = 1.15kg, on the plump side. I think I have covered most of the important points for you guys to help me, now for his symptoms. He will be fine, climbing, drinking, and moving about his enclosure (I do take him out when I am home but I work 12 hr shifts several days a week) but recently he will become lethargic, staying in one place usually in the cage temp. It almost appears that he is having trouble regulating his body temperature as when I feel him, he is quite warm. He will open his mouth often and close his eyes. Friday I was cleaning his enclosure and put him in our shower for safe keeping. When I returned he had had diarrhea and was very limp and warm. I then took him to a new exotic vet (we recently moved). The vet took X-rays but really could not give me any answer other than he was on the plump side and that I should let him exercise more. By the time we got home he was perking up and by morning he was sleeping under his newspaper. Yesterday he was sleeping on my chest while I watched tv and when I put him back into the cage, he was exhibiting the same symptoms as before, warm, lethargic, and not right. Oh yeah, the lights are on a timer that is on 10 hrs, off 14hrs. Please give me all your suggestions and I will follow them. I simply love this crazy skink! By the way: what is their life span in captivity? Is Ard nearing his? Thanks guys for reading and helping with my dilemma.

[DianaBlueTongue]

Sounds like he might just be beginning to brumate. Ive had my northern, Burrito, for over 15 years and like clockwork every year towards the end of the summer she starts to slow down, sleeps more, stays in her hide spot more. Eventually she stops eating and spends almost all day and night sleeping in her hide spot. Come late febuary she's begun to start stirring again and within a few weeks is back to her usual active self.

BTS can live upwards of 30 years so if yours is only 10-12 id say shes still got many years left with you.

Hopefully some of the long time keepers and breeders will chime in with their suggestions too, I don't have near as much and can only offer what limited experience I have personally.

[Susann]

Did the vet say anything about his bone density from the x-rays? I'm looking at your profile picture, and it might just be the angle, but it looks a bit like he has quite an overbite, which sometimes may be an indication of MBD, and MBD can also result in lethargy.

Do you supplement his food with calcium/D3?

Did the vet do a fecal test?

You say he has an elevated rock under the heat source; does it reach a higher temperature than 91? It may not be quite warm enough... It should be, but we generally advise Meraukes be offered a spot a little bit higher than that. When raising temps though, the issue becomes keeping the cool side from warming up too much, so you can still offer an area cool enough for the skink to cool off if overheated. And where you mention a couple times that he felt warm, I'm wondering if raising any temps is the answer.

It's a little bit early for brumation yet, and where gigas don't generally do full brumating, that shouldn't really be an issue at this point --if it was a couple months from now, maybe. I'm not ruling it out though.

Those are the only things that come to my mind as to causes for these sudden changes.
When my skinks have instances of diarrhea, I usually offer them only dog food until things go back to normal, which it generally does almost immediately --just to make sure it wasn't one of the veggies or greens that caused the upset.

Please keep us updated. Where it's only been a week or so, hopefully this is a quickly passing mystery, but those of us who have had sick skinks know how much you are worrying right now.

[dustypaws]

The vet's findings are as follows from her notes: Suspect possible GI upset symptoms due to can-o-snail. Suspect large amount of coelomic fat deposits and pads. Reduce diet, work on eventual weight loss. Metronidazole daily for 7 days. I gave Ard one dose but it stressed him out way too much. She was not sure of the X-ray reading and was going to call some other vets for their opinion. The original vet I wanted to see was away in Uganda and takes care of the Nature Center here in Asheville. This dr. is an "exotic vet" but claimed she didn't see many BTS's. I am going to call her tomorrow to follow up. I did not think to bring any fecal matter of course. I do use Rep-Cal calcium with Vit D3 powder on his food. I will ask her tomorrow about bone density. The angle of the avitar photo is not the best, as Ard does not have an overbite, he is just plump. I can add another rock under the heat source but what temp am I looking to achieve in that area? Thanks Susann for thoughts. Please feel free to add.

[Scotts1au]

If you are letting him get cool at night, he might be starting brumation, if you are not already doing so, consider using a low wattage CHE at night - you will have to choose a wattage to suit your heating and cooling needs. I'm not sure what your temperatures are like, guessing in North Carolina is pretty warm, but nothing like where these guys come from. Significant drops in night temperatures are not in an Indo's vocabulary.

[dustypaws]

Our house temperature is kept at 79'. Ard's enclosure temp is between 75 to 76' during the night. Is that too cool? I do have a low wattage CHE that I use during the winter that I could hook up if you think that would benefit him. Right now it's 9:30 in the evening and he is under his paper, cage temp is 75'. What daytime and night time temps should I be aiming for?

[Scotts1au]

You would want about 100F on the basking surface a min ambient temp of above 73C at the cool end so your heating solution should be tailored to this. Others with experience with Indos might correct me (because we aren't allowed to keep them in Aus), but these figures seems to hold true to most species to keep them from thinking about brumating and maintaining proper digestion and appetite. Clearly they can survive temperatures lower than this but we are talking about a regime that will prevent them sensing a seasonal change, some blueys will just bromate anyway.

79F seems high for a house, but it is about what the min temp gets to at the cool end. Anyway good luck.

[timisimaginary]

i would want to get a fecal done to rule out any parasites. diarrhea, especially if it persists, and behavioural changes can be signs of intestinal parasites. also, the warmth could be due to the skink spending more time in its warm spots to raise its body temperatures to fight off an infection. reptiles can't raise their body temps internally, so they don't get fevers, but a sick reptile may sometimes compensate by warming itself more often to raise it's body temperature.

it's a little odd the vet prescribed metronidazole without a fecal. that's an antibiotic and is usually given for internal parasites, but without a fecal there's no way to know if he has them. some vets will prescribe a medication as a precaution, but it's better to get a fecal and know exactly what you do or don't have before treating. different meds are better suited to different parasites, and there's no reason to stress out or subject a reptile to medication without a clear diagnosis.

[dustypaws]

I unfortunately dropped the ball when it came to the fecal sample. I guess I was preoccupied with finding an exotic vet that was still in the office and willing to see Ard late on a Friday evening. I will be on the lookout should he poop again which he has not. I have not fed him since Friday but will do so this week after I purchase fresh leafy greens and fruits. The vet sent his X-rays to another purely exotic doc and they agreed that it might have been indigestion (new food) but that the x-rays showed fatty deposits. They suggested a gradual change in his diet, adding live protein so that it will stimulate his mind and make him go after his food (pinky mice & worms) as well as increased exercise (supervised exploration). I guess under the circumstances I will move forward with their suggestions as Ard is truely a plump skink and quite the lazy man he is. Thanks for the info. I will watch and see if he continues to keep himself warm more frequently than cool and return to the vet if needed.

[Fatal_S]

Pinky mice are basically fat-bubbles. They don't move and they're not particularly healthy; it's like snacking on potato chips. If you want him moving around I'd suggest something like dubia roaches, which should be slow enough to be catchable but move enough to need some effort to catch.

Anyway, best of luck slimming him down and keeping him healthy. Please keep us updated on him.

[dustypaws]

Thanks Fatal, I will have to find a place that sells roaches. Ard is still very lethargic and not acting himself. I brought him outside and he didn't move when he is usually squirming about. Truly worried. What are the symptoms of mites? I haven't tried giving him any food, should I try to see if he will eat? I am not even sure that he is drinking although he hangs near the water bowl. Sorry about all these questions but he has been healthy up until last week. How about crickets until I can find the roaches?

[Susann]

Crickets are fine to try, but I honestly doubt he'll be interested if he's acting lethargic.
I would however put him and the crickets in a different tub than just sticking crickets in his tank; if he doesn't eat any the crickets won't be left in his tank to aggravate him. (And you're not left having to try catching them to get them back out.)
Sorry you're going through this; there's nothing worse than a sick skink when vets don't have a clue what's wrong.

[dustypaws]

Update on Ard's process. I finally got an appointment with the true exotic vet here in Asheville. She examined him and thought that he might have had indigestion but agreed with the previous vet that he had fatty deposits around his liver. (Who would have thought?) She said I should continue the Metronidazole and add a probiotic. He has eaten twice since then and I have him outside exploring when I am off and able to watch him. Of course she gave me a kit to bring a stool sample which I have not yet to get a good one (he sleeps under shredded newspaper so it is quickly absorbed when he poops). He seems more alert and active so that is a good sign. Hopefully with increased exercise (do they make treadmills for lizards?) and the meds he will be back on track. Thanks guys.

[PlinkoPachinko]

I don't know about treadmills, but I have a long hallway in the outside area of my apartment building and Plinko loves to walk back and forth. Maybe just take him out for walks sometimes? https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/E521444ECD1116858030701621248_2e7da1d0fb8.5.1.4546985297562571994.mp4?versionId=DVhrMdp9PtZrU5yebsqsmaxfgNtkcopy