Playing Instruments = Twitching/Moving?

[Cathy20]

Okay, so my brother was practicing his trumpet in the same room Wyatt's cage is in and I was listening to him play because he has a wonderful sound on it (so proud!) when I noticed Wyatt moving around a lot in his cage. He was kind of twitching, huffing, and moving around within a second or two of every new phrase or major pitch change. I took him out to see if it was just the accoustics of his cage making the sound too loud, but he was still moving around and twitching when I took him out. Had to take him downstairs away from the noise until my mom finally got my brother to practice somewhere else. So my questions are: Has anyone ever noticed this in their skinks before? and What is this, anyway?
Thank you!

[Lea]

A trumpet is a lot of external stimulation and probably quite disturbing to your skink. Umm, I am sorry, but I would say to kick your brother out of the room (or house) and give your skink some peace and quiet.

The twitching may be signs of his agitation, restlessness or just "peed off-ness". Nippy, one of my shinglebacks, twitches and starts when there are flies about- but you can shake a fly off. I understand you have an honest query here about noise and action or reaction, but common sense would tell you that his twitching is most likely the result of the displeasure or discomfort from the loud trumpet.

I think I would twitch and huff if someone started playing a trumpet in my bedroom.

[Fatal_S]

I agree it sounds like the extra noises were upsetting the skink.

I wonder if you could desensitize the skink to the trumpet noises. Starting with simple, few-note, tunes. Watching the skinks reactions. My guess would they'd be a bit scared, but curious. If they tune it out, move to sometime slightly more complex. If they start to freak, take a break for the day. I would think they could tune out the trumpet the same way they learn to ignore all the other scary noises and movements that happen around them every day.

And make sure he has lots of hides. If the noises are scary, he'll want to curl up somewhere and feel safe. If it's that the noises are uncomfortable to his ears though, it may not be possible for him to get used to it, and your brother and skink will have to come to an agreement about when/where the trumpet can be played.

[Vegasarah]

Try taking him out of the room and handling him and bonding with him for a little while. Or get into an activity with him like sight-training. It really builds the bond between you and the skink, and that way your brother can practice and your skink can be happy and enriched. I live in a house full of musicians, and I find that my skinks come out of their hides and sort of gravitate to the sound of the music. My fiance plays the bass, both guitar and upright, and my skinks can't seem to get enough of it. But maybe the trumpet is just too high pitched and irritates your skink. You don't want to put him through too much stress, so I would try removing your brother from the room while he plays or take the skink out.

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

http://www.herpcenter.com/herp-health/2 ... zards.html

[Vegasarah]

Interesting opinions, ML. I have to say that the music in my house is never too loud, and it's pretty much all bass. I would think that if the skinks disliked the sound of it, they would try and get away. But more often than not, when they cruise on the floor of the bedroom and Lee is playing bass, they sit right in front of the amp. And I know it's not for warmth because I swing their clamp lamp to shine down on a bit of slate tile on the floor that is VERY warm, should they get cold during their romp around the floor. Maybe something about the vibrations? I don't know, Lee is always flattered that they like to listen to him play lol.

[Bird_Brain]

http://www.herpcenter.com/herp-health/27986-loud-noises-lizards.html

Just curious, but what does that link add to the discussion? Just a handful of posts with people expressing their OPINIONS. I guess it may not have bothered me as much if I didnt expect there to be something of value. But like I said, just opinions,nothing definite.

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

http://www.herpcenter.com/herp-health/27986-loud-noises-lizards.html

Just curious, but what does that link add to the discussion? Just a handful of posts with people expressing their OPINIONS. I guess it may not have bothered me as much if I didnt expect there to be something of value. But like I said, just opinions,nothing definite.

All the posts here so far have been opinions
And I posted the wrong link
Correct links:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Reptiles-704 ... sounds.htm
http://www.anapsid.org/reptilehearing.html

[EricaBobrik]

I may baby my skink but I don't play any kind of music loudly around her. I don't play an instrument but I still don't turn up the tv or blast the radio if she's in the room. I've seen her get huffy if my dog is barking for only a moment or two so I can't imagine what the instrument was like for your skink.

[Bird_Brain]

http://www.herpcenter.com/herp-health/27986-loud-noises-lizards.html

Just curious, but what does that link add to the discussion? Just a handful of posts with people expressing their OPINIONS. I guess it may not have bothered me as much if I didnt expect there to be something of value. But like I said, just opinions,nothing definite.

All the posts here so far have been opinions

That's exactly my point. It was just more opinions, not anything useful. I'll check out your other links. Better have something good.

[El Lobo]

The question is if anthropogenic noise, i.e. unnatural noises in an animal's environment created by people or caused by human activity causes discomfort and/or distress to captive animals. I don't think it is rocket science to reach the conclusion that the probability is all but certain. It is not only the volume measured in decibels that should be considered but also the frequency in hertz of the sound. The article by Melissa Kaplan describes the mechanics of the reptilian ear. However, emphasis should also be placed on volume and frequency and its possible effects.

Loud sounds of varying frequencies are used at airports to keep birds away and high frequency emitters are claimed to keep rodents out of houses. The examples cited of trumpet and bass would be two of the worst examples of noise exposure for a BTS. The trumpet because of higher frequencies combined with volume and the bass for the very low frequencies. Low frequency sounds can cause vital organs to oscillate. There have been quite a few studies conducted on humans working in heavy industry by the Max Planck Institute in Germany as well as studies on birds. One such study is:

'Fitness costs of anthropogenic noise in passerine birds', by Dr. Julia Schroeder of the Max Planck Institute for Ornithology

Anyone having doubts as to the effects, try having a conversation with a headbanger who has managed to make it to forty.

[EricaBobrik]

Thank you for the great information! Going to check out those articles now.

[Cathy20]

Thank you all for the replies! I didn't expect such a quick response

LeaBilby: I can't kick my brother out of the house, he's 13. Also, I agree that it's likely discomfort, but I just wanted to post and make sure.

Fatal_S: Desensitizing him to the trumpet sounds like the best idea ever, yet my brother probably won't agree to it :/ and I think I'll try to get him a really good hide besides sheets of paper and a log-thingy. something he can curl up in.

ML: thanks for the links. I really learned a lot about my skink's ears

EricaBobrik: His cage is right by the TV and we almost always have it on and he never complains. One time i caught him looking up at Full House lol. I wonder why he doesn't twitch to the tv and never really did even when we first put his cage there...

[El Lobo]

His cage is right by the TV and we almost always have it on and he never complains.

In what form would you expect any complaint to be lodged?

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

I agree it sounds like the extra noises were upsetting the skink.

I wonder if you could desensitize the skink to the trumpet noises. Starting with simple, few-note, tunes. Watching the skinks reactions. My guess would they'd be a bit scared, but curious. If they tune it out, move to sometime slightly more complex. If they start to freak, take a break for the day. I would think they could tune out the trumpet the same way they learn to ignore all the other scary noises and movements that happen around them every day.

And make sure he has lots of hides. If the noises are scary, he'll want to curl up somewhere and feel safe. If it's that the noises are uncomfortable to his ears though, it may not be possible for him to get used to it, and your brother and skink will have to come to an agreement about when/where the trumpet can be played.

I believe that would cause too much stress on the animal to be worth it.
IMO it would be for the best to eliminate one of the variables from the situation, either the skink or the music.

[Fatal_S]

Take a moment to think about all the noises, sights, and other terrible stresses we desensitize our skinks to. The fact that we can walk near our skinks, talk to them, hold them, laugh, have the doorbell go off, etc, and the skink learns to deal with it; those are all very stressful things that we desensitize our animals to. That we ourselves are desensitized to (remember back when you would scream because the light burned your eyes? No, probably not, but it was something you had to quickly desensitize to when you were born). Life is full of stresses. The question I would ask is, is the stressor something that needs to be accepted, or can it be removed?

For example, my vacuum scares the skinks. They run around the tanks freaking out. But I have to vacuum the room at least once in a while. So I can either take the time to get them used to it, or I can only do it when needed and get it over with as quickly as possible. For the vacuum I choose the get-it-over-with method. They do naturally get used to it over the years, but it's not a willful desensitization. For something like the skink being held, most of us choose the desensitization method. It's all different types of stressors.

The reason I suggested desensitization in this case was because the OP has to live with her brother, and I doubt he'll give up on the trumpet completely for the skink's sake. So either keeping them as separate as possible, or desensitizing the skink, make sense to me.

The thing is, if you're going to desensitize anything, you do it in the kindest, gentlest manner. And of course if the trumpet is actually causing damage/pain, then trying to get them used to it is inhumane. I am in no way qualified to say if listening to a trumpet is enough to cause damage/pain.

Writing the word desensitize over and over makes it look like I'm spelling it wrong...

[Lea]

I'm sorry he's 13, cathy, but there must be an alternative. There are signs of obvious stress to your skink and these should be minimised or removed.

Think of this another way. If you had a brother, who was terrified of your skink, would you put them in a locked room together where he couldn't get away, with no explanation to him that your skink was nothing to fear? You would cause considerable distress to your brother, which is unfair, cruel and unnecessary. Sure, you could try and explain over and over to your brother that he's fine and soothe him with comforting words, but you really can't do that with a skink.

Maybe, eventually, he (your skink) will start to see the interference as a sound not to fear, but the damage, both mentally and physically, will probably have been done. And, as el lobo pointed out, the frequency of the sound wave itself remains the same and there is definitely evidence to say that this alone causes distress and damage, regardless of the "noise".

It's good to seek information, cathy, I applaud you for that, but as well as offering information in a yes/no format, it's good to have an understanding of the potential impact a human environment can have on our animals. I don't want this kind of discussion to be taken too lightly. It's kind of upsetting to think that once you have recognised a stress or fear that has been instigated by a particular source, someone would continually expose that animal to the stress in the human hope that they will understand- mentally they may eventually "get it", but the physical impact here, like with the headbangers, is great.

[Linnea]

my family is also very insensitive to my skink(s).

they walk through my room with dinosaur steps all year round cause they dont want to pick the other way. they hoover way more than whats needed, and for some reason they all love the hairdryer. the terrarium glass shakes when they walk past, my sister sings whenever she is home and my parents speak loudly 24/7 for some reason.

myself, i hide if i hear the hairdryer. the sound terrifies me. and i imagine my skink feels exactly the same, its very stressfull even if i know the sound isnt bad.
and since its my bedroom also i have to live with the sound of terrarium glass doors shaking when they walk past (it never happens when i walk...).

so, you could say i share your worries about disturbing my skink(s). although he hasnt shown excessive stress response to it, its enough for him to open his eyes during brumation. only thing that makes him run around however is if his light goes out while hes basking.

setting up the new terrarium also made a lot of noise D:

so i really understand this situation. and the family really wont listen to any reason.

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

Take a moment to think about all the noises, sights, and other terrible stresses we desensitize our skinks to. The fact that we can walk near our skinks, talk to them, hold them, laugh, have the doorbell go off, etc, and the skink learns to deal with it; those are all very stressful things that we desensitize our animals to. That we ourselves are desensitized to (remember back when you would scream because the light burned your eyes? No, probably not, but it was something you had to quickly desensitize to when you were born). Life is full of stresses. The question I would ask is, is the stressor something that needs to be accepted, or can it be removed?

For example, my vacuum scares the skinks. They run around the tanks freaking out. But I have to vacuum the room at least once in a while. So I can either take the time to get them used to it, or I can only do it when needed and get it over with as quickly as possible. For the vacuum I choose the get-it-over-with method. They do naturally get used to it over the years, but it's not a willful desensitization. For something like the skink being held, most of us choose the desensitization method. It's all different types of stressors.

The reason I suggested desensitization in this case was because the OP has to live with her brother, and I doubt he'll give up on the trumpet completely for the skink's sake. So either keeping them as separate as possible, or desensitizing the skink, make sense to me.

The thing is, if you're going to desensitize anything, you do it in the kindest, gentlest manner. And of course if the trumpet is actually causing damage/pain, then trying to get them used to it is inhumane. I am in no way qualified to say if listening to a trumpet is enough to cause damage/pain.

Writing the word desensitize over and over makes it look like I'm spelling it wrong...

Something cannot be avoided, but this can. Moving the skink or the music to another room would solve the problem.

[Jeff]

...Anyone having doubts as to the effects, try having a conversation with a headbanger who has mansiaged to make it to forty.

Was that comment directed at me?!!!