Pee puddle concern and arm shaking

[iLoveMyLizard]

Ok, so just then I have found a puddle of pee with a small amount of urates. This concerned me because Sid has recently been monitored as he has been to the vets, got better, and now i suspect may be getting worse again.

He has already had a big poop today and left some soft urates and a small amount of water around it showing he is well hydrated. I am suspecting that this is also just him disposing of fluids, but am concerned over the amount and would appreciate some feedback. The liquid was clear (although in the bath and at the vet he disposed of a yellow liquid which I relate to being scared) and the urates again, were soft.

As for the arm shaking, when he was on the antibiotics, the arm shaking seemed to stop completely. Since he has been took off them, it has since started again and i suspect he might be in pain (toe loss previously, no explanation).

He has been shedding so has been lethargic for around a week and a half but is now roaming so I am going to keep an eye on him for the next few days. Any feedback on this would also, be greatly appreciated. I suspect it might be time for another vet checkup, just to be sure, but thought I would ask here first.

** WARNING - TURN SPEAKERS DOWN **

http://youtu.be/kYluZoLEuS0

To give you a size of the puddle, he is in a 4ft x 2ft enclosure, compared by picture.

Many thanks and best regards as always,
Joe






On an unrelated question, a few weeks ago, I witnessed him "spit". I listened to his breathing and couldnt identify any crackling/wheezing, he had clear nostrils and there was no excess mucas in his mouth, just normal. Im not too worried about this, but has anyone elses skink, ever spat?

[iLoveMyLizard]

Any ideas?

[Lea]

The spit was probably a blast of snot from the nostrils- not exactly a sneeze, but a forceful expulsion of debris to clear the passages! I doubt, as a one off. It's anything to be concerned about, but as you noted, keep your eye on him for excessive mucus production, wheezing, watery nose or eyes, laboured breathing,mwhich could indicate problems.

The pee size looks fine, he's obviously drinking well. Without seeing the urate, it's hard to determine if there was a problem. Are you thinking there was too much of it? As for colour, it's usually fairly creamy or whitish and soft when it first gets excreted, however, as it dries out, it will tend to yellow a little and sometimes yellowish crystals can be seen. They look a bit like a dull yellow glitter. The volume will vary, depending on the diet and whether he has excess uric acid to get rid of. Most of the time, with a little tweaking of the diet, you'll start to see less urate and definitely less yellowing.

What sort of foods are you giving your skink? We might be able to make some suggestions to help reduce some of the not so good foods and give tips for things to add or feed more frequently. One of the side effects of too much uric acid, is gout, which is incredibly painful. It's difficult to detect, since our animals can't tell us their joints hurt etc, but the arm waving/shaking might be his way of making his joints feel better- it's a guess though- but inflammation is reduced with antibiotic use, which could have lessened pain caused by inflammatory gout and now he's stopped them, the pain is returning. I'm supposing, of course, but it is a possibility to bear in mind.

[iLoveMyLizard]

The spit was probably a blast of snot from the nostrils- not exactly a sneeze, but a forceful expulsion of debris to clear the passages! I doubt, as a one off. It's anything to be concerned about, but as you noted, keep your eye on him for excessive mucus production, wheezing, watery nose or eyes, laboured breathing,mwhich could indicate problems.

The pee size looks fine, he's obviously drinking well. Without seeing the urate, it's hard to determine if there was a problem. Are you thinking there was too much of it? As for colour, it's usually fairly creamy or whitish and soft when it first gets excreted, however, as it dries out, it will tend to yellow a little and sometimes yellowish crystals can be seen. They look a bit like a dull yellow glitter. The volume will vary, depending on the diet and whether he has excess uric acid to get rid of. Most of the time, with a little tweaking of the diet, you'll start to see less urate and definitely less yellowing.

What sort of foods are you giving your skink? We might be able to make some suggestions to help reduce some of the not so good foods and give tips for things to add or feed more frequently. One of the side effects of too much uric acid, is gout, which is incredibly painful. It's difficult to detect, since our animals can't tell us their joints hurt etc, but the arm waving/shaking might be his way of making his joints feel better- it's a guess though- but inflammation is reduced with antibiotic use, which could have lessened pain caused by inflammatory gout and now he's stopped them, the pain is returning. I'm supposing, of course, but it is a possibility to bear in mind.

The yellow I was referring to was the colour of the water/urine as and when he peed in the bath one time and at the vet. His urates are always good, soft and white. The pee was clear yesterday, or so i thought when i cleaned it off his rock, could be pale yellow as it was just unnoticeable on my hands.

I was thinking that there was too much pee as you describe, especially since he had already decreted his waste that day.

Hid diet consists of Dubia roaches as staple, silkworms, raw turkey mince mixed with his greens (rocket, spring greens, and whatever else is available that isnt high in water, spinache ocassionally) and fruits as treats or to encourage him to be more comfortable with me, typically by handfeed.

I am also going to be breeding achatina fulica GALS soon too, so they willl shortly be part of it.

Thanks for your help

best regards
Joe

[Lea]

Spinach is not advised for skinks, It is high in oxalic acid and it's toxic to birds and some reptiles, I'd leave that out. It's good to include a few veggies, too, not just the greens. Have you seen the care sheet on this site? It has a good diet list of foods appropriate for your skink. For an adult, about 40% should be a protein source, 50% veggies and the rest a small choice of fruit. That's a guide for overall, so say,ma weekly recommendation, although you could give more veggies one day, less on another, as long as it balances out. Variation is good, too. The more food variety, the more likely you are to be giving your skink everything it needs.

http://bluetongueskinks.net/foodchart.html

As for the wee, more yellow and often, more stinky, lol, would just be more waste per particle H2O. Unless the wee looks cloudy, frothy or dark, or there are crystals in the liquid, it's most likely normal. Stopping the spinach and making a few adjustments with the diet, will probably help.

[iLoveMyLizard]

Spinach is not advised for skinks, It is high in oxalic acid and it's toxic to birds and some reptiles, I'd leave that out. It's good to include a few veggies, too, not just the greens. Have you seen the care sheet on this site? It has a good diet list of foods appropriate for your skink. For an adult, about 40% should be a protein source, 50% veggies and the rest a small choice of fruit. That's a guide for overall, so say,ma weekly recommendation, although you could give more veggies one day, less on another, as long as it balances out. Variation is good, too. The more food variety, the more likely you are to be giving your skink everything it needs.

http://bluetongueskinks.net/foodchart.html

As for the wee, more yellow and often, more stinky, lol, would just be more waste per particle H2O. Unless the wee looks cloudy, frothy or dark, or there are crystals in the liquid, it's most likely normal. Stopping the spinach and making a few adjustments with the diet, will probably help.

He only gets spinache occasionally, Im aware of the oxalic acid and so keep spinache low, as with banana etc. He gets butternut squash, carrots etc, but the squash was cut out of his diet for a little while as per the vets instructions, as he needed more calcium at the time rather than phospherus rich foods (or outweighed to calcium).I have seen the care sheet and diet chart, very informative and is the resource I used to build his diet. I have been working with his foods as at first, they were very runny and sloppy, but since adjusting have been good. Im about to establish a dubia colony so ill have free roaches for him constantly. Im going to reduce feeding also to twice per week. Hes roughle a year and 3 months now.

The spitting, was more of a dribble which spilled from his mouth, he looked like a child with a sour taste - minus the eye expressions.

Any ideas regarding the arm shaking?

Many thanks and best regards,
Joe

[Lea]

He only gets spinache occasionally, Im aware of the oxalic acid and so keep spinache low, as with banana etc. He gets butternut squash, carrots etc, but the squash was cut out of his diet for a little while as per the vets instructions, as he needed more calcium at the time rather than phospherus rich foods (or outweighed to calcium).I have seen the care sheet and diet chart, very informative and is the resource I used to build his diet. I have been working with his foods as at first, they were very runny and sloppy, but since adjusting have been good. Im about to establish a dubia colony so ill have free roaches for him constantly. Im going to reduce feeding also to twice per week. Hes roughle a year and 3 months now.

The spitting, was more of a dribble which spilled from his mouth, he looked like a child with a sour taste - minus the eye expressions.

Any ideas regarding the arm shaking?

Many thanks and best regards,
Joe

LeaBilby wrote:

The pee size looks fine, he's obviously drinking well. Without seeing the urate, it's hard to determine if there was a problem. Are you thinking there was too much of it? As for colour, it's usually fairly creamy or whitish and soft when it first gets excreted, however, as it dries out, it will tend to yellow a little and sometimes yellowish crystals can be seen. They look a bit like a dull yellow glitter. The volume will vary, depending on the diet and whether he has excess uric acid to get rid of. Most of the time, with a little tweaking of the diet, you'll start to see less urate and definitely less yellowing.

What sort of foods are you giving your skink? We might be able to make some suggestions to help reduce some of the not so good foods and give tips for things to add or feed more frequently. One of the side effects of too much uric acid, is gout, which is incredibly painful. It's difficult to detect, since our animals can't tell us their joints hurt etc, but the arm waving/shaking might be his way of making his joints feel better- it's a guess though- but inflammation is reduced with antibiotic use, which could have lessened pain caused by inflammatory gout and now he's stopped them, the pain is returning. I'm supposing, of course, but it is a possibility to bear in mind.

[El Lobo]

The amount of urine doesn't look abnormal to me. All my blotchies will excrete around that volume if they are on an impervious surface.

I don't think the arm waving is normal for a BTS, even though there is an Australian lizard (Lophognathus gilberti) which has a distinctive waving motion with its arm. As LeaBilby said, it could be a reaction to joint pain such as gout crystallising in the synovial fluid of the joints, or it could be some kind of nerve damage causing an involuntary tic. If it persists I wouldn't have any hesitation referring onto an experienced reptile vet.

I just want to mention the raw turkey meat. I feed my blueys raw red meat but I won't feed any poultry other than cooked. There is a risk (which although it may be small) of salmonella. Additionally, poultry has a higher level of phosphorous than most of the commonly fed red meats.