New! Have some substrate and food questions!

[auristi]

Hello all!

I am brand new to having a BTS (actually don't even have it yet. should be getting it at the end of the week) and I had a few questions.

1. I wanted to make sure I have everything set up and test the temperatures for a day or two before I go pick up my baby just to make sure everything is working, but I am having trouble with the substrate. I cannot find shaved aspen anywhere!! All any store I have been to has it shredded and then has shaved pine and ceder which I read is not good. What do people use as a substrate/what have you found to be the best!?

2. I am a little confused on the food portion of it. I understand the 50/40/10 system but I am wondering about the meat part of it. Is dog food good for them? And what kind of dog food should I be avoiding and what should I be looking for when I get it? Can I just use beef/chicken/turkey ground up and boiled to cook? the caresheet said that bee should be done in moderation but dog food frequently so if that is the case I just want to make sure that I purchase the right kind!

As a final note I am in Alberta so if anyone from here is in Canada or even Alberta that can recommend places for me to get the food and substrate that would be awesome!

Thanks so much! There will be pics to come of my BTS cage and of course of him/her asap!

[tylociraptor]

1) I had the same problem until I picked up some aspen for my mouse... and realized it was SHAVED! Woo! Check the rodent supplies. Carefresh is another option but I know some people don't prefer it because while the skink can walk on top of the aspen, carefresh doesn't compact as well, so he'll end up walking on the bottom of the cage and pushing the substrate around.

2) Regarding dog food. I don't know about the other owners here, but as a person with a serious interest in dog and cat nutrition... READ. THE. LABEL. Don't get a 'grocery store' brand that's going to have all sorts of filler and sub par meat. Keep in mind that when you read "chicken byproduct meal" and "meat product", they are talking ground up bones, fat, tail, face, and in some cases, this can mean diseased animals. It also means ground up chickens from battery farms... you know, those ones where they put chickens in tiny cages for a few years so that they never know true ground, sunlight... Aside from them being abused, they also are not ful of the nutrition your pet needs. They were kept for eggs, not for meat!

Do some research on different brands, but go to your local healthy pet food store (if you have a global pet supply there, I highly reccomend it). Remember, this is the protein portion of your pets diet, so you want something thats packed full with meat and little filler. Dog food isn't as good for this as cat food is (cats are obligate carnivores).

Alternitively, you can get lean beed or turkey and cook it up and include it in your feeding regimen. Some of the members here have awesome 'recepes' for food that can be frozen and used over the course of a week or two. I believe one even packed theirs into an ice cube tray and froze it into single serve portions. How smart! But going with dog or cat food (which is what I will do personally) does mean a little less work, and you don't have to cook meat (a nice bonus for me, since I'm veg and don't really like cooking meat... ), also great if you're a bad cook.

There are quite a few folk in Alberta here, in fact many of which are breeders. In fact... I'm starting to think I'm the only Canadian who ISN'T From the plains on this forum! I'm sure one of them can give you a hand more directly with local markets and so on!

[Linnea]

one. You are correct, avoid pine and cedar. the oil they produce is smellable even for humans, and this irritates sensitive lungs like those of lizards.
if you are having trouble finding the aspen sheddings, there are MANY alternatives. Cork substrate, coconut husk are just two of many many. just avoid sand and the pine trees

2. I do not quite agree with tylociraptor on this entirely. that the dog food contains fat, tail, bone and such is just healthy (ox tail is soo tasty ). its lots of extra minerals. and the brands that say they dont have "ugly" products from farmgrown animals are mostly bad liars.
also, face of an animal is just regular meat. tongue is regularily eaten by people everywhere, and eyes too. nothing dangerous, just different eating cultures.

wellness is a very loved brand in usa and canada, if i understand it right.
but basically, as long as there arent grain fillings (harmless but worthless) or added sugar or bacon (salt, i dont get why they add it to dogfood) you can pick whichever you want
cat food contains added taurine, which in large amount is believed to be bad for blueys, i sometimes feed catfood, but it is more and more seldom.


if anything sounds complicated, dont hesitate to ask more.

[tylociraptor]

one. You are correct, avoid pine and cedar. the oil they produce is smellable even for humans, and this irritates sensitive lungs like those of lizards.
if you are having trouble finding the aspen sheddings, there are MANY alternatives. Cork substrate, coconut husk are just two of many many. just avoid sand and the pine trees

2. I do not quite agree with tylociraptor on this entirely. that the dog food contains fat, tail, bone and such is just healthy (ox tail is soo tasty ). its lots of extra minerals. and the brands that say they dont have "ugly" products from farmgrown animals are mostly bad liars.
also, face of an animal is just regular meat. tongue is regularily eaten by people everywhere, and eyes too. nothing dangerous, just different eating cultures.

wellness is a very loved brand in usa and canada, if i understand it right.
but basically, as long as there arent grain fillings (harmless but worthless) or added sugar or bacon (salt, i dont get why they add it to dogfood) you can pick whichever you want
cat food contains added taurine, which in large amount is believed to be bad for blueys, i sometimes feed catfood, but it is more and more seldom.


if anything sounds complicated, dont hesitate to ask more.

My concern is less the waste meat (although there are some that don't use any regular meat, just waste... and that might as well be filler) and more the sickly animals (and even sometimes dogs and cats) used in brands like Iams, purina and pedigree. Just safe to stick with something high grade to avoid anything like that! Wellness, iirc, IS actually a good one! I'll have to re-check the inrgedients

[Sarikazam]

My concern is less the waste meat (although there are some that don't use any regular meat, just waste... and that might as well be filler) and more the sickly animals (and even sometimes dogs and cats) used in brands like Iams, purina and pedigree. Just safe to stick with something high grade to avoid anything like that! Wellness, iirc, IS actually a good one! I'll have to re-check the inrgedients

On that note, I was horrified to see that some of the dog food companies actually go along to vet offices and pick up deceased animals for their companies.... What a terrible thought for pet owners
So yeah, I personally think it would be best to get somewhere in the middle, not the cheapest bad food, but not the super fancy expensive food either. But that might just be more for my sanity than actually benefiting my skinks.

[auristi]

I was looking at the wellness gluten free brands and was wondering about the flaxseed and spinach those are ok? I found conflicting info on both when I searched them. Thanks for the replys! I found the aspen so imaging to give that a try for the first little bit and see how it goes. As for the picking up deceased animals that just sounds horrid!! I could never do that. Even my fish get a grave in the backyard!

[auristi]

What do you guys use as a protien source?

[auristi]

Also re read the las post and realized it sounded like I was saying I could never go to the vet to pick up meat (which I could never do anyways) what I meant there was I could never just leave my pet after it had died

[Bird_Brain]

On that note, I was horrified to see that some of the dog food companies actually go along to vet offices and pick up deceased animals for their companies.... What a terrible thought for pet owners

HAHA. From working at a vets office, I can guarantee you that the likelihood of that actually happening is very slim to none. Before I would even consider that an issue, I would be more worried about where your food is actually coming from and what it contains. Would you care to provide reference of when this happened and with what food companies?

[Sarikazam]

HAHA. From working at a vets office, I can guarantee you that the likelihood of that actually happening is very slim to none. Before I would even consider that an issue, I would be more worried about where your food is actually coming from and what it contains. Would you care to provide reference of when this happened and with what food companies?

Well I am sure 99% of vet's offices don't do that, but I saw a video on Youtube (yeah, yeah I know, probably not very reliable) of an undercover worker making a pick up from a vet's office and then delivering it to some processing plant. I can try to find the video, but it was probably over a year ago that I saw it. I realise that my previous comment might sound kinda silly, as I realise that it isn't very likely true or accurate. But that one video kind of freaked me out for a while there. I will see if I can find it again.

Edit: Well this wasn't what I was looking for, and I realise it is out of date (So this whole issue probably isn't true anymore) but here is one article I found: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... -dog-food/

Second edit: Found the video. I got into the weird section of Youtube. I could post the link; but I am kind of worried about posting such a disturbing video Would I get in trouble?
If anyone wants to see it, I can always PM them the link. (But I don't really recommend watching it)

[Linnea]

auristi, most of us give dogfood as a protein souce some give dubia roaches too. either one is fine~

[El Lobo]

Can we draw a line on the discussion of dog food components unless there is more substantial evidence to support some of the more contentious claims already made.

There are many threads that can be found using the search function discussing the use of dog food as a staple for BTS feeding.

This site has credibility, so let's not reduce it to the level of those such as Yahoo answers.

[auristi]

i can assure you that I did not realize it would blow up like this. I was simply trying to gain an idea of what would be considered a "good" brand of dog food to use - I have no furry pets and have never had dogs so I have no idea what would be considered healthy vs unhealthy. The reason I asked here was because of the credibility. I am totally new to this and do not want to do something wrong unknowingly.

[Susann]

Auristi, you have done nothing wrong!
El Lobo was just sounding a warning to those answering you that we need to stick with facts in our answers. We have had many a food discussion here on the forum that have deteriorated because of scary claims about meat suppliers and processing plants.

There are many companies making dog food, but you will find just as many, if not more, opinions on which ones are good and which ones are bad.
Do what El Lobo suggests; go to the top of the General Discussion page, and type in "dog food" in the SEARCH, and read the previous threads we have had on the subject.

In my humble opinion, we need to keep in mind that, although we as people might prefer to not eat the feet, eyes, tail, and scull of an animal, there is nothing nutritionally wrong about feeding them to our animals. Just because it is a "by-product" doesn't mean it was a diseased animal, or something picked up by the side of the road.

Lots of members of this site are fine with feeding their BTS by-products and by-product meal. I myself have no problem feeding my BTS the feet and skin and sculls, etc. I personally like to stick with the better known brands, but if I can get my hands on a can of Canine Caviar, where the list of ingredients consists of: Beaver, Water, I will absolutely buy it, and HOPE they just ground up the whole beaver, and that my BTS gets to eat all the great calcium from the sceleton, and the great fat from the tail, and the added protein from the brain. And so forth.

But like I said, those are just my opinions.

There's no need to throw well known brands under the buss with claims that they use sickly dogs and cats in their canned dog foods. Those are exactly the kinds of claims we need to keep out of the discussions here. If someone asks "What is a good dog food brand", and you feel you have an opinion to contribute, then feel free to articulate that opinion. No need to bring in off topic claims.

[Katrina]

Welcome!!! Where in Alberta are you from? I'm in the Edmonton area.

[Rachael t]

Lizzie loves snails I give her live ones and she crunches them up. Other protien foods could be worms, roaches, egg, dog food.

[Lea]

Hi and welcome!

I won't give you brands, as I'm English and in australia, so will not be of much use with what's available to you.

I will suggest the all natural varieties, though. They tend to consists of less salts and saturated fats and be, in general, a healthier option. They can be slightly more per tin, but for peace of mind that you are giving your skink the best option, it's worth the extra pennies. It's always good to mix it up with some veggies and a little fruit, too and don't be frightened about giving fresh meats either. Try a lean or as we call in Australia, a heart-smart variety of meat/ mince, which has less of the bad fats that us humans like to indulge in. Try to include some greens and one or two veggies, to give a balanced meal. Fruit usually goes down well with any of my skinks, and a little juicy watermelon or a few blueberries seems to encourage then to eat the other stuff, that they find less palatable!

Type "food" into the search and you'll find some excellent meal suggestions from other users that will help to give you some ideas. Above all, I would recommend variety, particularly if you are new to skinks. The more variety, the more likely you are to give them what they need, even If you haven't yet got to grips with the nitty griittys of calcium and phosphate ratios and the like! The more you learn about each food you give, the easier it will become to give a balanced meal every time. Choose foods you can easily find in your area and mix them up. Foods available will change with the seasons, so don't fret if you can't find a squash or pumpkin, or kale and blueberries! Usually there will be plenty available for a hungry mouth!