An update on Sid

[iLoveMyLizard]

Ok, so last time you guys heard from Sid he was loosing toes, having problems with dry skin, poor shedding and a crusty mouth. I took him back from where i originally purchased him as the guy in the store told me to bring him down after i explained what was happening and he said he would take a look at him. Anyhow, the day i took him down, the guy that was supposed to be having a look, was unavailable that day, so his colleague took a look, and reccommended that i just keep a close eye on him, as there were a few possibilites as to why it was happening, and said that if it was to get worse, more so than it already had, or developed other symptoms, then to get a second opinion.

Anyway, the past week he has been chilling prior to shed, and i noticed his eye get a little funny. His eye started to become quite dry, and looked dirty so i gave it a rinse. It looked the same for a few days and yesterday became alarming when i took him out and it was foamy/ full of gunge. I consulted the vet immediately, and they reccommended he was to be checked out as soon as possible, so i booked him in for an appointment today, and once we were seen, discovered he had septicemia after he looked at his belly for a few seconds (after getting peed on - first time he has done it too!). He explained that, as with humans, can cause complications with blood flow and proper circulation, and that his toes could possibly be a result of that, as they may have not been getting the blood flow they needed, and in combination with stuck shed, well you get the idea.

He took him away for a while and gave him a bath, and removed all of his shed from body and toes (he started to shed today too)

He gave me a course of anti-biotics which need to be injected every 4 days, so he told me to stick to every wednesday and saturday and showed me the proper procedure for doing so. He also said i was lucky to have a skink that was so still whilst treating!

He also said how well the guy at the pet shop takes care for his animals, and that he doubts the infection was acquired whilst in his care (a pet shop actually been given credit for a change)

Ill get some pictures up later too, as hes growing on abit and is getting quite the character.

Perfect birthday gift to get my lizard seen to. Properly.

[Jeff]

I'm sorry to hear that Sid is still having issues. My only concern is that you said the vet determined that he has septicemia after looking at his belly briefly? What type of skink is Sid? If he is a gigas, it is perfectly normal for his belly to be very red, especially when he is stressed (like from being turned upside down at the vet). Is the red belly the reason for the diagnosis? I don't know what else the vet could see on his belly that would cause him to diagnose this.

It is clear that Sid has a real issue going on that is causing all the symptoms you described. I am just worried that the vet might not realize that a red belly is very normal for some types of bts. I am NOT a vet, and would never tell you to ignore what one says, just think that you might want to ask WHY he thinks Sid has septicemia.

[El Lobo]

I am not a vet either but I agree with Jeff on this diagnosis of septicaemia by looking at the belly for a few seconds. Indications of septicaemia can be small pin point blood dots on the skin surface called petechiae, larger patches under the skin called purpura, or a large area looking like a bad bruise called ecchymosis. The only accurate means I am aware of to diagnose septicaemia is by blood test or at the least urine test.

Septicaemia is bacteria in the blood stream (blood poisoning) and is a very serious infection with a mortality rate well over 50%. That is the reality of the infection and it is why I question the vet's diagnosis and him seemingly not explaining the potential seriousness of septicaemia, if he is confident in his diagnosis. A course of antibiotics is the equivalent of 'take two aspirin and call me in the morning'. The antibiotics are essential but other supportive therapies such as IV fluids and even oxygen can be equally important in treating septicaemia.

I also have a view that toe loss may have a connection with insufficient blood flow to the extremities like toes, carrying urea and other potential toxins and being deposited by poor circulation. A low rate of oxygen in the blood stream (hypoxia) could also contribute to the necrosis of the toes seen so often.

Which antibiotics have been prescribed?

[iLoveMyLizard]

He is and Irian Jaya

The vet said the reason for him suspecting that sid had septicemia was because he seen something with the blood vessels and said that it had something to do with some coloration on his belly (a pink tinge as he described it). His belly does seem to have discoloured dramatically since i got him, and went from a mid orange to a very pale kind of translucent pinky colour, which i didnt actually think anything of, but wondered a little bit as to why it had gone like that

The antibiotics that were prescribed (what it says on the bottle) were "FORTUM INJ 1G" which i think is the antibiotic and what i assume to be an accronym for injections. I give him 0.1ml per injection over a coarse of 5 injections, and after the fifth injection i return to see the progress (said that it takes longer to see results in reptiles as opposed to mammals and would be able to see if the treatment is effective after that time.)

He also reccommended to notch the heat up in his enclosure to around a 38 C basking spot and to bathe him around once a day if feasible.

[iLoveMyLizard]

any further input?

Sid is going to be bathed every day for the entirety of his course of antibiotics and for a while after while his toes heal up to keep them clean and sediment free. I dont really want to take his substrate away as he loves digging and burrowing, and when he feels threatened (is particularly stressed at the moment, although is still quite calm) can hide, and am going to be wiping the inside of his enclosure daily with disinfectant also.

[iLoveMyLizard]

His other eye started foaming earlier too. He has been asleep all day and when he awoke he had a foamy eye, the opposing one which i initially thought was infected. I think its just excess fluid in his eye, as its quite clear and goes away once he gives it a rub (i still rinse in the bath though). Hopefully by the end of the antibiotics I should see some improvements, but for now im still quite concerned and am keeping a close eye on him.

[iLoveMyLizard]

Anybody?

[El Lobo]

I don't know what further input you are looking for as Sid has been to a vet and is being treated.

Fortum (Ceftazidime) is an antibiotic belonging in the cephalosporin group and has a broader spectrum than enrofloxacin (Baytril) which is the usual first choice of vets. Overall because of the broader spectrum it is probably a reasonable choice of abx, depending on for what the vet is treating. One thing to be aware of with cephalosporins is that they can produce allergic reactions from intolerance to the drug.

These are some of the side effects noted in humans

skin trouble such as a rash, red spots, itching, skin lumps, hives, blisters or peeling,
swelling of the eyelids, face or lips,
diarrhoea (even several weeks after your FORTUM treatment),
high temperature (fever),
difficulty breathing.
bruising or bleeding,
shaking or muscle twitches.
wheezing, swelling of the lips/mouth, difficulty in breathing, hayfever, lumpy rash (hives) or fainting.
These could be symptoms of an allergic reaction.

Keep monitoring him and if he shows signs of anything that may be consistent with an allergic reaction call the vet.

[iLoveMyLizard]

I suppose what input I was looking for was just your opinions and feedback on the antibiotic really, and I was also pondering a little bit when Jeff described that a red belly could have been normal.

Thanks for the information on the antibiotic though. I did seem to get a little on my hand when preparing it, which did produce a read rash on my skin, which dissappeared later. When I go back to the vet Im going to enquire about blood testing and such, as surely if the problem was identified by analysing his belly, then the only way to be confident that the infection has been treated successfully would be for a blood test.

[Linnea]

if you yourself had a reaction, make sure to wear gloves next time. it may be a bit too careful, but once you show reaction to such a thing you should probably take care to not get a larger rash with an infection D;

write it down that youve showed allergy to the antibiotics, should you ever be ill yourself it might save your life in the future. with resistant bacterias coming back, you never know......

[iLoveMyLizard]

if you yourself had a reaction, make sure to wear gloves next time. it may be a bit too careful, but once you show reaction to such a thing you should probably take care to not get a larger rash with an infection D;

write it down that youve showed allergy to the antibiotics, should you ever be ill yourself it might save your life in the future. with resistant bacterias coming back, you never know......

Thanks for the heads up, would have never even though

I cant get out to get any surgical gloves, but Ill just bleach and disinfect a pair rubber washing up gloves prior to giving him his shot tomorrow.

[Spindown]

when my IJ had septicemia, her belly was very red, but it wasnt normally like that, it was normally a whitish color that got milky looking before a shed. However, 2 of my others have orange/red bellies which they have always had. I always pester my vets because i want to know EXACTLY what they are doing and WHY. If they are a good vet, not a totall !@#$ they will answer your questions. I've learned a lot by reading forums and asking vets questions, and sometimes that knowledge comes in handy. Sometimes vets dont know what they are doing (esp. if you are trying to find a good reptile vet and are doing some vet hopping), and i've had to stop them sometimes before they hurt my animals. my last vet (my new one is amazing) took my Northern male into the back to get a fecal sample, and when she brought him out he was acting really weird. Turns out she was way too rough and had really irritated his hemipenes. She thought nothing of the fact that its not that normal for a bluey to EVERT HIS HEMIPENES to get a sample, or whatever else she was doing to him. Now i make my vet do everything in front of me. Shes awesome though, and loves to teach me stuff!

[iLoveMyLizard]

Ok so today was checkup day to see his progress, to which the vet deemed him to be doing fantastic. He said his belly was looking more orange, to which I said to him was normal for the species he is and that his regular orange colour was coming back from the pinky milky/translucent colour it was when he was sick. He said that was fine, and due to how well he looks now compared to 3 weeks ago, then he thinks he is ready to come off the antibiotics and to keep a very close eye on him. His eyes are perfect now from the bubbling itchy infected looked eyes they were previously, and the scab on his mouth is doing well and healing nicely, but i enquired about some manuka honey, which im collecting on friday and he said it would be good if i wanted to use it.

As for his toes, he said they are looking fantastic to what they were, and that he shouldnt loose anymore, and might be lucky to keep the one he thought was the next victim to fall off.

I do think his initially diagnosis of septicemia was wrong, but atleast now I have a very happy, active, tank hating lizard who wants to chill with me permanently.

Just thought I would let you guys know what was going on, and if you had any feedback you wish to leave.

Many thanks

Joe.

[Susann]

EXACTLY what we wanted to hear!

[iLoveMyLizard]

Thanks Susan, it was such a relief to hear hes on the mend, was also a relief for my parents wallets too !

[Katrina]

I'd agree with Jeff, a red belly is very normal at various times. Same with a milky belly or an orange belly. I've had two BTS that came with Septecemia, the bellys were both very red (normal for IJs and gigas at various times) and didn't change after the meds, except for the normal changes throughout the shed cycle. Lots of mine have very, very red bellies and are perfectly healthy, I wouldn't use it as a diagnosis tool.

Otherwise, it is good to hears things are looking better.

[iLoveMyLizard]

Hes going to shed in the next few days, so Ill get some post shed photos, hes lookings pretty good