SKINK ID - uh oh
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In this forum all are welcome to ask blue tongue skink-related questions, share information, ideas, tips, experiences, and pictures with fellow BTS enthusiasts.
If you are wondering if your BTS is acting normally or might be sick, this is where you can get help with that.
This is also where you can have some FUN while sharing the enjoyment you get from your blueys!
- AndrewSeike
- Sunset Skinks
- Posts: 415
- Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:11 pm
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- Location: California
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SKINK ID - uh oh
Hey all,
Ben Siegel is usually pretty accurate but these guys are not Northerns.
Take a look:
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=34&de=514753
Gee another uninformed customer is going to breed these guys with Northerns.
Ugh.
Andrew
Ben Siegel is usually pretty accurate but these guys are not Northerns.
Take a look:
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=34&de=514753
Gee another uninformed customer is going to breed these guys with Northerns.
Ugh.
Andrew
http://www.bluetongueskinks.com with New Blue Tongue Skink Forum
Breeding and living with skinks since '88
Currently working with many representatives of the following Tiliqua:
scincoides.scincoides
scincoides.intermedia
scincoides.chimaerea
nigrolutea - alpine form
multifasciata
gigas.gigas
gigas.evanescens
gigas.keyensis
sp - Irian Jaya
Breeding and living with skinks since '88
Currently working with many representatives of the following Tiliqua:
scincoides.scincoides
scincoides.intermedia
scincoides.chimaerea
nigrolutea - alpine form
multifasciata
gigas.gigas
gigas.evanescens
gigas.keyensis
sp - Irian Jaya
- Funda
- Bluey Devotee
- Posts: 1551
- Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:35 am
- Country:
- Location: Australia: Victoria/Melbourne
- Contact:
There not Northens!
How could he have mistaken them for Northerns
He could of atleast got an opinion from
someone else to make it more accurate...
But anyway..
To me these babies look Eastern or IJ ...
f.C
How could he have mistaken them for Northerns
He could of atleast got an opinion from
someone else to make it more accurate...
But anyway..
To me these babies look Eastern or IJ ...
f.C
Last edited by Funda on Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:24 am, edited 4 times in total.
*1 Dog, mitsy
*1 Cockatiel, Baylee
*2 Kittens, Lucky and Cuddles
*2 Eastern BTS, Saphia and Eragon.
*f.C Photography
*I love Cengiz, my love muffin!
*1 Cockatiel, Baylee
*2 Kittens, Lucky and Cuddles
*2 Eastern BTS, Saphia and Eragon.
*f.C Photography
*I love Cengiz, my love muffin!
- russman
- Bluey Enthusiast
- Posts: 557
- Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:43 pm
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- Location: Russell, PA USA
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- Minister of Propaganda
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Gosh it took a long time for the kingsnake.com page to load...
They look mixed. Those few "peppery" black and white spots are Northern-ish. The middle one looks the most Eastern of all. The bottom one looks really like a cross breed to me.
I've been really on this hybrid trip lately in identification, what do you think, Andrew? They certainly aren't true northerns for sure, but what do you think, Andrew?
KW
They look mixed. Those few "peppery" black and white spots are Northern-ish. The middle one looks the most Eastern of all. The bottom one looks really like a cross breed to me.
I've been really on this hybrid trip lately in identification, what do you think, Andrew? They certainly aren't true northerns for sure, but what do you think, Andrew?
KW
Goodbye, BTS.net -- We've had to good times. I do hope someone else will come along and make it the lovely community it once was.
- AndrewSeike
- Sunset Skinks
- Posts: 415
- Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:11 pm
- Country:
- Location: California
- Contact:
Hi Kyle,
The pepper is definitely a common trait but several Ij's have it at birth. It's weird but they do. Just a bit - the northern develop more and more pepper as they age. I'll post pictures of IJ babies. Zach has his own as well.
These guys are probably just IJs but possibility of hybridization is feasible with Northerns especially with these weird babies.
I'm usually hesitant to say there's any Eastern in them as it is easy to say that with our easterns currently resembling Northerns even with the Portholes. With experience and seeing them live you can see the differences between northerns and easterns but it's getting harder. I just tend to RUN from anything semi Eastern/Northernish. If I KNOW without a shadow of a doubt it's an Eastern i might look into it but really - are there any other Eastern lines? (I know of a few outside of Ray but they aren't selling dang it but I'm still on it) What is even more scary is that if many of the Easterns from the southern region didn't have the eye streak we couldn't tell them apart from IJ babies. For instance look at FUNDA'S baby pics. I have seen MANY ij's that have that design even as adults (my anery and its mate are examples of these) that look this way and people from Australia could not say they weren't Easterns. Maybe some of the old timers here remember that thread as well.
I'd also like to say that I've exchanged letters with Glenn Shea about all this and learned quite a bit.
There's a HUGE variety between Northerns and Easterns but he told me straight up that there's some "question" as to actually being able to tell them apart definitively through morphology alone. So, many Easterns and Northerns are so closely related we're just going by morphology to separate them all without any real knowledge. As I mentioned previously the general populace in the reptile world of Australia refers to Scincoides as scincoides without the intermedia, scincoides sub-division.
Thanks for asking Kyle!
Andrew
The pepper is definitely a common trait but several Ij's have it at birth. It's weird but they do. Just a bit - the northern develop more and more pepper as they age. I'll post pictures of IJ babies. Zach has his own as well.
These guys are probably just IJs but possibility of hybridization is feasible with Northerns especially with these weird babies.
I'm usually hesitant to say there's any Eastern in them as it is easy to say that with our easterns currently resembling Northerns even with the Portholes. With experience and seeing them live you can see the differences between northerns and easterns but it's getting harder. I just tend to RUN from anything semi Eastern/Northernish. If I KNOW without a shadow of a doubt it's an Eastern i might look into it but really - are there any other Eastern lines? (I know of a few outside of Ray but they aren't selling dang it but I'm still on it) What is even more scary is that if many of the Easterns from the southern region didn't have the eye streak we couldn't tell them apart from IJ babies. For instance look at FUNDA'S baby pics. I have seen MANY ij's that have that design even as adults (my anery and its mate are examples of these) that look this way and people from Australia could not say they weren't Easterns. Maybe some of the old timers here remember that thread as well.
I'd also like to say that I've exchanged letters with Glenn Shea about all this and learned quite a bit.
There's a HUGE variety between Northerns and Easterns but he told me straight up that there's some "question" as to actually being able to tell them apart definitively through morphology alone. So, many Easterns and Northerns are so closely related we're just going by morphology to separate them all without any real knowledge. As I mentioned previously the general populace in the reptile world of Australia refers to Scincoides as scincoides without the intermedia, scincoides sub-division.
Thanks for asking Kyle!
Andrew
http://www.bluetongueskinks.com with New Blue Tongue Skink Forum
Breeding and living with skinks since '88
Currently working with many representatives of the following Tiliqua:
scincoides.scincoides
scincoides.intermedia
scincoides.chimaerea
nigrolutea - alpine form
multifasciata
gigas.gigas
gigas.evanescens
gigas.keyensis
sp - Irian Jaya
Breeding and living with skinks since '88
Currently working with many representatives of the following Tiliqua:
scincoides.scincoides
scincoides.intermedia
scincoides.chimaerea
nigrolutea - alpine form
multifasciata
gigas.gigas
gigas.evanescens
gigas.keyensis
sp - Irian Jaya
- Zach
- Grand Cicada
- Posts: 7550
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- Country:
- Location: Orygun
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- Minister of Propaganda
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- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:03 am
- Country:
Andrew...
I'm in agreement; that's why I went with Ray for an Eastern, since that's what I really wanted. I soon learned there's many so-called "Easterns," out there and it's sad to say, they're really getting rarer and rarer in the USA, which is a *darn shame. Part of the reason why I like Easterns so much is because of the natural variation that goes on within the sub-category. They're really amazing creatures. (Not to discount the rest!)
There's so many different off-center "clues" as to what those guys Ben is selling are...
...Zach makes a good point, I'd like to see them in 3-6 months too, that will definately weed out any doubts and solidify any traits, visually speaking. I've never really seen a lot of side-by-side baby pictures of IJ's and Easterns, but I do know the babies sure do change a LOT when they get older!
I hope these suspected "mutts" just get good homes and no one breeds them.
KW
I'm in agreement; that's why I went with Ray for an Eastern, since that's what I really wanted. I soon learned there's many so-called "Easterns," out there and it's sad to say, they're really getting rarer and rarer in the USA, which is a *darn shame. Part of the reason why I like Easterns so much is because of the natural variation that goes on within the sub-category. They're really amazing creatures. (Not to discount the rest!)
There's so many different off-center "clues" as to what those guys Ben is selling are...
...Zach makes a good point, I'd like to see them in 3-6 months too, that will definately weed out any doubts and solidify any traits, visually speaking. I've never really seen a lot of side-by-side baby pictures of IJ's and Easterns, but I do know the babies sure do change a LOT when they get older!
I hope these suspected "mutts" just get good homes and no one breeds them.
KW
Goodbye, BTS.net -- We've had to good times. I do hope someone else will come along and make it the lovely community it once was.
- Funda
- Bluey Devotee
- Posts: 1551
- Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:35 am
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I feel sorry for you guys in US.
I mean here, theres dozens of Easterns in petsores, alot of breeders, even Easterns roaming around in the wilderness.
Pretty great actually.
But then again us Australians wish we could see those we cant,
if u get what i mean lol.
The popular blueys in ur country might not be as popular in ours,
thats why we're so curious on seeing/getting one.
But you catch my drift, so i dont have to explain anymore
Yeah i own 2 Easterns myself and sure there only 5 months
old but they've changed heaps ever since i got them!
f.C
I mean here, theres dozens of Easterns in petsores, alot of breeders, even Easterns roaming around in the wilderness.
Pretty great actually.
But then again us Australians wish we could see those we cant,
if u get what i mean lol.
The popular blueys in ur country might not be as popular in ours,
thats why we're so curious on seeing/getting one.
But you catch my drift, so i dont have to explain anymore
Yeah i own 2 Easterns myself and sure there only 5 months
old but they've changed heaps ever since i got them!
f.C
*1 Dog, mitsy
*1 Cockatiel, Baylee
*2 Kittens, Lucky and Cuddles
*2 Eastern BTS, Saphia and Eragon.
*f.C Photography
*I love Cengiz, my love muffin!
*1 Cockatiel, Baylee
*2 Kittens, Lucky and Cuddles
*2 Eastern BTS, Saphia and Eragon.
*f.C Photography
*I love Cengiz, my love muffin!
- Lisa
- Blue Mountains Beauty
- Posts: 1072
- Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:04 pm
- Country:
- Location: Blue Mtns, NSW, Australia
I can understand how difficult it must be over there to visually differentiate between Easterns and the non-Australian species (IJs etc) as there are definate similarities in their looks.
We are lucky here in Australia because there is simply no way of visually confusing an Eastern with any other Australian species. They look nothing like an blotched or a western or a centralian or a northern (IMO). In addition, apart from Easterns (also known as the Common blue tongue), the other Australian species tend to be more location specific. For example, if you're bushwalking in NSW and see a blue tongue you know it will not be a Western. If you're canyoning in the NT, the Blue tongue you see on the ground sure ain't gonna be a blotchy.
Having said that, this is a good example of how Easterns can vary in colour and pattern, even in Australia. Like I said, there would be no doubting here in Australia that these are Eastern bluetongues, but the variations are quite pronounced. To have non-Australian species thrown into the mix, as you do in America, I understand how it would have to be alot harder to identify with certainty. But good luck!
BTW, these are for sale on an Aussie reptiles site
http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/ahc/search.php
We are lucky here in Australia because there is simply no way of visually confusing an Eastern with any other Australian species. They look nothing like an blotched or a western or a centralian or a northern (IMO). In addition, apart from Easterns (also known as the Common blue tongue), the other Australian species tend to be more location specific. For example, if you're bushwalking in NSW and see a blue tongue you know it will not be a Western. If you're canyoning in the NT, the Blue tongue you see on the ground sure ain't gonna be a blotchy.
Having said that, this is a good example of how Easterns can vary in colour and pattern, even in Australia. Like I said, there would be no doubting here in Australia that these are Eastern bluetongues, but the variations are quite pronounced. To have non-Australian species thrown into the mix, as you do in America, I understand how it would have to be alot harder to identify with certainty. But good luck!
BTW, these are for sale on an Aussie reptiles site
http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/ahc/search.php
1 Eastern, JUBBY, born January 2004
1 Blotchie, RALPHIE, born March 2006
1 Nutjob, SANTOS L HALPER (SANTOS), born February 2006
1 Shingle SHE'S THE FASTEST, born Feb 2008
1 Blotchie, RALPHIE, born March 2006
1 Nutjob, SANTOS L HALPER (SANTOS), born February 2006
1 Shingle SHE'S THE FASTEST, born Feb 2008
- Zach
- Grand Cicada
- Posts: 7550
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- Leigh
- Leigh of the Law
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- Minister of Propaganda
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The only thing I'd add to Lis' picture is the melanistic Eastern that Zach posted a while back and some of the super light sandy colored ones I saw when I first joined the site... I can't find the pictures anywhere now...
Easterns are so neat.
KW
Easterns are so neat.
KW
Goodbye, BTS.net -- We've had to good times. I do hope someone else will come along and make it the lovely community it once was.
- AndrewSeike
- Sunset Skinks
- Posts: 415
- Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:11 pm
- Country:
- Location: California
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Hey Kyle!
See the four Easterns all with the Fade? =)
I also see the Blur on the bottom animal. Cool huh?
Andrew
See the four Easterns all with the Fade? =)
I also see the Blur on the bottom animal. Cool huh?
Andrew
http://www.bluetongueskinks.com with New Blue Tongue Skink Forum
Breeding and living with skinks since '88
Currently working with many representatives of the following Tiliqua:
scincoides.scincoides
scincoides.intermedia
scincoides.chimaerea
nigrolutea - alpine form
multifasciata
gigas.gigas
gigas.evanescens
gigas.keyensis
sp - Irian Jaya
Breeding and living with skinks since '88
Currently working with many representatives of the following Tiliqua:
scincoides.scincoides
scincoides.intermedia
scincoides.chimaerea
nigrolutea - alpine form
multifasciata
gigas.gigas
gigas.evanescens
gigas.keyensis
sp - Irian Jaya
- Colin Hamilton
- Starve the Lizards!
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:58 pm
- Country:
- Location: sydney
SKINK
More likely that those northerns they are selling have indonesian blood of some kind,heres a pic of some of my little easterns,the two bigger ones are in shed.Just an excuse to post a photo andrew,there is actually four but its not in pic
- Leigh
- Leigh of the Law
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- Location: Bristol, England
- Funda
- Bluey Devotee
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- Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:35 am
- Country:
- Location: Australia: Victoria/Melbourne
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- Lisa
- Blue Mountains Beauty
- Posts: 1072
- Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:04 pm
- Country:
- Location: Blue Mtns, NSW, Australia
Leigh wrote:They look worried about THE BIG MAN in the newspaper mate , lock up your skinks haa haa haa
Leigh you are a very funny (and observant) man! There's always one funny comment you've made that greets me each morning over my cornflakes
Colin, they're the ones you got from the mountain woman, yeah? Are they all from the same litter or clutch or whatever it's called? If so ... Wow. They're all so different. I knew I should've got one.
1 Eastern, JUBBY, born January 2004
1 Blotchie, RALPHIE, born March 2006
1 Nutjob, SANTOS L HALPER (SANTOS), born February 2006
1 Shingle SHE'S THE FASTEST, born Feb 2008
1 Blotchie, RALPHIE, born March 2006
1 Nutjob, SANTOS L HALPER (SANTOS), born February 2006
1 Shingle SHE'S THE FASTEST, born Feb 2008
- AndrewSeike
- Sunset Skinks
- Posts: 415
- Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:11 pm
- Country:
- Location: California
- Contact:
Colin you are the man.
Thanks for making us all drool over your skinks again.
lol.
Keep in touch buddy!
Andrew
Thanks for making us all drool over your skinks again.
lol.
Keep in touch buddy!
Andrew
http://www.bluetongueskinks.com with New Blue Tongue Skink Forum
Breeding and living with skinks since '88
Currently working with many representatives of the following Tiliqua:
scincoides.scincoides
scincoides.intermedia
scincoides.chimaerea
nigrolutea - alpine form
multifasciata
gigas.gigas
gigas.evanescens
gigas.keyensis
sp - Irian Jaya
Breeding and living with skinks since '88
Currently working with many representatives of the following Tiliqua:
scincoides.scincoides
scincoides.intermedia
scincoides.chimaerea
nigrolutea - alpine form
multifasciata
gigas.gigas
gigas.evanescens
gigas.keyensis
sp - Irian Jaya
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