Baby Irian Jaya

[Elerida]

Hello!

I got my first reptile, a baby Irian Jaya BTS. He is one month old. I read a lot of information, and I had a kind of picture in my head about how could he behave. About that he will hide, and don’t eat and etc. But I bring him home about three weeks ago, and he still hiding most of time. He come out only when he smells food. Is it okay for him, not to bask under the lamp? I mean, that he doesn’t get his UV when he is hiding…
Also, he doesn’t want to eat insects. I tried to give him some small Dubia Roach and he didn’t hunt. Mealworms he eats, but it seems that his favorite is raw cat food (“Carnilove”). Vegetables and fruits, he tends to ignore…
He gets vitamins of Exo Terra once a week and Calcium + D3 every two days.

[mb606587]

As long as it is eating I would not be terribly concerned. Babies are instinctively skittish, they fall prey to alot of animals so it is hardwired into their DNA to be cautious. I would ensure that you have multiple hides throughout the enclosure and at the very least, one near the light and one in the cooler area away from it. Eating only cat food is not an issue, in fact many raise their babies on solely that diet. Vegetables and fruits are typically not consumed as frequently by babies and juveniles as at this stage, protein is most essential for growth.

[Elerida]

mb606587

Thank you!
Does it okay that the skink doesn't get UV? And I have another question: is it okay to start handle it? Until now, I sometimes give cat food from hand.

[mb606587]

Your skink will be fine even without the UV. After 3 weeks, I'd say it's ok to begin briefly handling.

[Elerida]

Hello again!
Until now it seems that we are okay with the skink. I have some new questions.

- The cat food that it eats contain D3 (on the label write 200 IU of D3 in a box). I put to the food of the lizard every two days powder of exo terra calcium + D3 (about half of the cup that coming with it). The skink will not get overdose of D3 in this way? Maybe I should give him pure calcium? I see also in youtube that some people put a little dish with pure calcium in the terrarium, so the skink have free access to powder.

- About UV. My terrarium is a little high, it 60 cm. The lamp is about 45-50 cm from the stone that the skink basking on. The lamp that I have is Eco Terra UVB 150 26W (what in the past was Repti Glo 10.0). The table in the box of it says, that in this distance the lamp gives 350-270 LUX. Does it enough for him? Should I put this lamp lower? Or maybe I should buy the weaker lamp (Like UVB 100) end than put it lower? In the guide of Exo Terra they say that UVB 100 26W with distance of 30 cm gives 550 LUX.

- Does the forum has some table/article that says how big the skink should be in which age? It is now almost 4 month old and about 30 cm long.

[kingofnobbys]

As long as it is eating I would not be terribly concerned. Babies are instinctively skittish, they fall prey to alot of animals so it is hardwired into their DNA to be cautious. I would ensure that you have multiple hides throughout the enclosure and at the very least, one near the light and one in the cooler area away from it. Eating only cat food is not an issue, in fact many raise their babies on solely that diet. Vegetables and fruits are typically not consumed as frequently by babies and juveniles as at this stage, protein is most essential for growth.

Show us the tank and how you've set it up (lights , hides etc).


I've found that if you have a small Hubbahut style hide or one of those dome style hides , and place it directly under the basking globe or a UVB200 compact (in a nanohood is best for these IMO) the skittish little young lizard will be more inclined to bask as it can dart straight under the hide if something big and scary ( you) approach.
Hide should not be over spaceous, it needs to feel secure and private for it.

It wont take long for it to work out that you are the food and water provider , and you are the one who removes it's poos.

Don't try to force the issue with handling for now, only touch It or handle it if absolutely necessary for now . It's got to learn it can trust you and you are not going to harm it, this will take time , maybe a month or two.

[kingofnobbys]

Hello again!
Until now it seems that we are okay with the skink. I have some new questions.

- The cat food that it eats contain D3 (on the label write 200 IU of D3 in a box). I put to the food of the lizard every two days powder of exo terra calcium + D3 (about half of the cup that coming with it). The skink will not get overdose of D3 in this way? Maybe I should give him pure calcium? I see also in youtube that some people put a little dish with pure calcium in the terrarium, so the skink have free access to powder.

- About UV. My terrarium is a little high, it 60 cm. The lamp is about 45-50 cm from the stone that the skink basking on. The lamp that I have is Eco Terra UVB 150 26W (what in the past was Repti Glo 10.0). The table in the box of it says, that in this distance the lamp gives 350-270 LUX. Does it enough for him? Should I put this lamp lower? Or maybe I should buy the weaker lamp (Like UVB 100) end than put it lower? In the guide of Exo Terra they say that UVB 100 26W with distance of 30 cm gives 550 LUX.

<<<
LUX js visible light intensity , it's the UVA and UVB FLUX ( measured in microW or milliW flux / sq.cm that you need to know. Fortunately I've produced graphs that make this easier to visualize than otherwise.
I think you will need to upgrade to a T5ho 12% tube for that tank height , a 26W UVB150 is only a 5% UVB source and will be giving quite low UVA and UVB at 50cm , if you insist on keeping the existing UVB compact, you'll need to either
> move it closer to the basking spot
or
> install a taller basking spot

I'd be trying get the distance to about 20cm .


I'd be setting up to get the UVB flux ( microW UVB / sq.cm ) to about 150 microW UVB /sq.cm ( just read off the distance from the chart) , I don't keep IJ BTS , but they are from an equatorial region and live in woodlands and grasslands so need quite high levels of UV.


- Does the forum has some table/article that says how big the skink should be in which age? It is now almost 4 month old and about 30 cm long.

[Elerida]

kingofnobbys
Thank you!
The first post of the topic I write when I get the BTS. Now it seems that the skink stopped afraid of me after. Now it stay calm when I open the terrarium to change water/remove poop, and when I take it out from the enclosure.

Here is the terrarium: https://i.ibb.co/KKGxsqG/1.jpg

The lamps were like this before, but the breeder of the BTS say that I should put in on the terrarium, not inside. But after what you say, I think that I will return it like that again: https://i.ibb.co/N2wvh18/Whats-App-Imag ... -46-44.jpg

I think you will need to upgrade to a T5ho 12% tube for that tank height , a 26W UVB150 is only a 5% UVB source and will be giving quite low UVA and UVB at 50cm , if you insist on keeping the existing UVB compact, you'll need to either

Yes, I put it like this because the breeder say that 10.0 is too much for them and they need 5.0. Soon I should order a new lamp, and I want to be sure that I get the right one...

[kingofnobbys]

kingofnobbys
Thank you!
The first post of the topic I write when I get the BTS. Now it seems that the skink stopped afraid of me after. Now it stay calm when I open the terrarium to change water/remove poop, and when I take it out from the enclosure.

Here is the terrarium: https://i.ibb.co/KKGxsqG/1.jpg

The lamps were like this before, but the breeder of the BTS say that I should put in on the terrarium, not inside. But after what you say, I think that I will return it like that again: https://i.ibb.co/N2wvh18/Whats-App-Imag ... -46-44.jpg

I think you will need to upgrade to a T5ho 12% tube for that tank height , a 26W UVB150 is only a 5% UVB source and will be giving quite low UVA and UVB at 50cm , if you insist on keeping the existing UVB compact, you'll need to either

Yes, I put it like this because the breeder say that 10.0 is too much for them and they need 5.0. Soon I should order a new lamp, and I want to be sure that I get the right one...

Seems to me the "breeder" (if indeed he actually is a breeder and not just a trafficker) has given you some bad advise , as has the pet shop where you bought the tank. But don't worry, it's early days and you can recover the situation make corrections to the lighting , and the husbandry and your baby IJ BTS can still grow up big , strong , healthy and friendly and happy.

I've taken a look at the image of your tank , see below :

A common misconception is that Blue Tongued Skinks do not require UV, however this is utter presumption as there is no reason why they are exempt from the same care as other species. Thus UV and a full photoperiod are essential, as supplementation alone is dangerous via the risk of over or under-supplementing of vitamin D3. They can be provided UV ideally either 10-12% and either T8 or T5 however T5 is far more efficient, modern UV equipment being able to fully simulate wild UV index’ when set up correctly. This UV equipment should be fitted the same side as the basking area allowing a UV and photo gradient so the animal can escape it on the opposite side and under décor should it want to.

from https://www.reptiletalk.net/indonesian- ... gue-skink/ and https://www.herpvet.com.au/blue-tongued ... are-sheet/

If the UVB150 is above the very fine mesh lid , your skink is getting NO UVA and NO UVB at all to speak of, in fact the level of UV at the indicated basking spot wlll so close to zero ( likely under 10 microW UVB / sq.cm that even if you are giving VitD3 fortified Calcium & multivitamins and food (cat food ? would not be my choice for a baby skink BTW ) 6hat your skink wont be able to metabolise it's dietary calcium (needed to grow) and risks developing MBD ( insufficient UVB) and severe neurogical problems ( insufficient UVA) because

1) the 26W UVB150 is MUCH TOO WEAK to start with , needs to be upgraded to at least a 26W UVB200 , a T5ho 12% tube with a good quality reflector (hood) would be much better at distances of about 30cm to 40cm , and if you can't get the basking higher or closer , I'd strongly recommend even a T5ho 14% UVB tube in a reflector hood in order to get the UVB flux up to about 150 or higher microW UVB / sq.cm at the basking spot.
See this chart that I created comparing Arcadia's high T5HO tubes with and without focusing reflectors / reflector hoods :


It can be seen that a T5ho 14% UVB tube in a reflector hood will give about the required UVB flux at 45 cm to 50cm if UNOBSTRUCTED.

2) if the UV source is in dome B , on top of the mesh lid , the fine mesh is block more than 45% of the UV before it even gets into the tank, essentially cancelling any benefit of using a reflector (dome , or if you upgrade to a T5ho , the reflecto hood. I VERY STRONGLY recommend moving the UV source and it's reflector (dome) so it's hung UNDER the mesh lid.

3) I'd replace the mesh lid with a solid timber lid with the lights mounted under it , this will help
>>> maintain adequate levels of humidity for your IJ BTS
>>> help maintain tank temperatures , you wont need as high a wattage basking globe to achieve the same basking spot temperature, warm and cool zone temperatures
>>> help keep the tank warmer overnight, your skink wont cope with cold overnight temperatures especially in winter , I'd endeavor to keep the overnight temperatures in winter over 24 degC

See this for one way to set up the basking globe and a CHE on thermostats to manage the tank temperatures during the daytime and overnight :


4) I suggest investing another hide , in this case a suitable sized timber or plastic (acrylic) hollow 1/2 log style hide , like

this will go under basking globe to provide both a warm humid hide and a basking platform

Young / baby and juvenile skinks shed frequently , and will benefit from having some pointy / rough surfaced pieces of tree branch to crawl over and scratch against and crawl under when in shed and while they are feeling very itchy and uncomfortable.
If you live near an area of woodland or an orchard , you should be able to find a suitable dead branch that's been dropped or cut off a tree that will only need to cut to length to fit inside the tank.
Even bits of very textured bark of tree trunk that have been shed are good.
I believe Israelis have large areas of eucaypt trees ( not native to Israel but considered the bees knees for timber and shade ), and they often grown in plantations there , the dry dead leaves and shed twigs and branches and bark of these are PERFECT additions to any BTS tanks. I believe the most common eucalypt grown in Israel is what we call the river red gum.

The sun dried dead shed leaves add a nice textural element to the skink's bedding as does a few larger bits of shed bark and some twigs.
All my skinks ( eastern BTS , eastern water skinks, and delicate (rainbow) skinks love the stuff included in their bedding.

I simply collect my leaves and twigs and bits of bark off my front lawn as I have a mature ( 40 year old , 50m tall eucalypt in my front yard that I planted as a seedling shortly after I bought my house) , I don't bother treating the leaves or sterilizing them , they are simply collected and mixed with the coco fibre bedding .


The little skink will also benefit from a wide shallow water dish , I'd suggest placing this in the warm zone so water warms ups a bit and on a piece of cement paver ( BTS have a habit of trying to burrow under stuff in their tanks ( this will discourage this skink getting under the water dish and spilling the water and the paver will soak up heat and help keep the tank warmer overnight when it will act as heat source while it's slowly cooling down ( high relative thermal inertia and thermal mass in the paver will help , see this for dense concrete's thermal properties , and note unpigmented concrete has an emissivity of 0.9 .

ref Researchgate.net


I have a 400mm x 400mm paver in my each of my eastern BTS ' tanks , I place the food and water dishes on these , in a smaller tank , a 300mm x 300mm paver will do :

A typical dry 300mm x 300mm x 40mm paver is 9.54 kg mass
==> if warmed to 35 degC , it can store 1.1 x 9.54 x 35 = 367 KJ of heat that will be released slowly as the air temperature in the tank falls (after the basking light is switched off) .

This is the kind of dish my skinks have in their tanks : https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostor ... ter-dishes , my advise is pick one like it that's got a nice rough inside the dish surface (will help a skink crawl out) and never have more water in the dish than a depth about half the belly to back height of the skink's body).

[Elerida]

kingofnobbys

Wow, thank you again, your answers are so helpful!!

I will improve the UV. For now, I put it low distance (until I buy the better one). The problem is that when I did the “shopping” before getting the BTS, almost all petstores told me that there is no tube UV in country, because provider just don’t bring this products here (like a lot of other helpful stuff). I can order it from internet (and hoping that the post will not crash it). Maybe I should get the mercury bulb, that also give UV and heat? I don’t know how they chose what to bring and what not, but mercury I see here a lot.

- At night right now the temperatures are not low (according to the guide here on forum). But for winter night I want to get a heat mat. Do you think it will work? Or maybe ceramic heater will be better?

- About cat food: it eats not only cat food (which again, in a lot of guides I read that people gives their BTS only raw cat\dog food without insects for years…) it also eats blaptica dubia. And of course, veggies\greens and sometimes a bit of fruits. Should I stay only with the roaches (and plants)?

- Humidity is between 60-80% (a bit lower under the lamps), I spray the terrarium with room-temperature water two-free times in day. I wanted to put a big dish that the skink could “swim”, but I concern that when I will not at home, it will poop in the water and drink it…

[kingofnobbys]

kingofnobbys

Wow, thank you again, your answers are so helpful!!

I will improve the UV. For now, I put it low distance (until I buy the better one). The problem is that when I did the “shopping” before getting the BTS, almost all petstores told me that there is no tube UV in country, because provider just don’t bring this products here (like a lot of other helpful stuff). I can order it from internet (and hoping that the post will not crash it). Maybe I should get the mercury bulb, that also give UV and heat? I don’t know how they chose what to bring and what not, but mercury I see here a lot.

<<< MVB are a good solution , just note they can not be dimmed , their internal control circuitry just shuts them down entirely until they are cold enough to restart.
<<< petshops are nearly always useless and give very advise because their owners push products that maximise their profit and it very rare for the sales staff to be knowledgeable about reptile husbandry and health requirements.
When I bought my Arcadia 24W t5ho Slimline luminaires , I bought 4 in one hit and had them shipped with 4 extra Arcadia T5ho 12% UVB tubes from the UK to me in Australia and they all arrived in good order. So ordering from somewhere in the EU or UK and shipping to the Israel wont end be an issue.

- At night right now the temperatures are not low (according to the guide here on forum). But for winter night I want to get a heat mat. Do you think it will work? Or maybe ceramic heater will be better?

<<< all my pet skinks and bearded dragons ( 2 bearded dragons, 2 eastern bluetongues, 1 eastern water skink, 2 delicate (rainbow) skinks) have either a 5W or a 7W film style heatpad controlled by a thermostat ( simple switching type) , I sandwich my heatpads between two layers of old floor tiles ( had some stashed under my house ) .

my 5W version.
I set the heatslabs to hold 32 degC for my skinks, and they run 24/7. My skinks love them and sleep on them every night.
\
A word of caution -
1 / heatpads do not LIKE moisture or high humidity / dampness , the risk is moisture will penetrate and cause a short circuit (this can be dangerous)
2 / you can't trust the internal temperature limiters in heatpads , don't use one without a external thermostat controlling it , if the internal control circuit fails , the external thermostat will stop the heatpad from overheating by cutting the current to it if it starts getting too hot , no external thermostat means there is a risk of burning the skinks belly and chest if the heatpad overheats, and in the worst case , the heatpad can cause a fire.. .

- About cat food: it eats not only cat food (which again, in a lot of guides I read that people gives their BTS only raw cat\dog food without insects for years…) it also eats blaptica dubia. And of course, veggies\greens and sometimes a bit of fruits. Should I stay only with the roaches (and plants)?
<<< I'm not a fan of cat or dog food for skinks as a staple , I try to keep my skinks diets more "natural". I believe a baby or juvenile skink will do better on live insects as their staple protein source.
There are two camps on this , some sware by cat or dog food as staple and claim their skinks thrive and are healthy , others like me prefer to give more natural live protein sources emulating as close as possible the sources of protein a wild skink will only have access to ( in the bush or where they don't have access to suburban catfood and dogfood dishes , urban and suburban wild bluetongues are very opportunistic and are known to raid cat and dog food and water dishes , even at the risk of encountering the dog or cat it's meant for , they do this because they lack other sources of food they'd more easily find in the bush or rural grasslands or sevannahs and are hungry) .



- Humidity is between 60-80% (a bit lower under the lamps), I spray the terrarium with room-temperature water two-free times in day. I wanted to put a big dish that the skink could “swim”, but I concern that when I will not at home, it will poop in the water and drink it…

Wide shallow water dish is the go for bluetongue skinks , it must be able touch the bottom at all times and it must be able to get out as easily as it got in.

My water skink loves to swim and splash about and will even submerge herself completely and pretends she's a microsized crocodile for much of most days …. hey they are called water skinks
My bluetongues don't mind a bath , and are great drinkers , so I have to keep their water dishes topped up.
The delicate skinks are good drinkers too, but usually only climb in their water dish to retrieve a drowned weenie sized cricket or woodroach to eat it.