Eastern Blue Tongue question

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C.Cannon
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Re: Eastern Blue Tongue question

Postby C.Cannon » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:03 pm

Yes the female he used was named "Sydney" and was accidentally brought into Europe from Sydney, Australia by stowing away in some pipes. The male was named "Sergei" from a Russian bloodline believed to originate from Queensland. Calling them eyebands is fine but calling the NSW probably isn't accurate.

There are a few true nsw and Victorian localities that were imported from New Zealand by TC Houston as well as some NSW animals from obtained from Don Patterson in Canada.

As far as eyebands go I have Webb line, Victorian and Patterson NSW animals. They look pretty different, the Webb line girl I have is very light, almost lavender with thin bands. The true NSW male I have is very dark with much thicker black stripes. When I breed them together this year I will be labling them honestly, 25% Queensland 75% NSW. In my mind this is the most honest thing to do with Webb line eyebands. True NSW and Victorian are available and calling Webb line eyebands pure locality diminishes how rare those animals are.

That being said I got all of these animals for the diverse bloodlines to make stronger eyebanded easterns. It is way more important to me to have eastern litters with 4 unrelated grandparents than it is to spit hairs on keeping bloodlines separate and breeding siblings together for generations.
kingofnobbys
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Re: Eastern Blue Tongue question

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:13 pm

mb606587 wrote:
Crreptiles wrote:I don’t mean to stir anything up I just think it’s a very interesting topic. From what I’ve read NSW and Brisbane locales overlap. Is it just the Eyeband and coloration that differed between the two? Is there a size difference? Body structure? Husbandry requirements?
You would figure science would classify them as a separate species. I know the aussies hybridized the northerns and Easterns all the time. I’m not saying I agree with that but would you say that we frown more upon that since we don’t have a genetic pool to get pure animals from?(That being any other country outside of Australia.)


As for the differences between the two, I'll wait for Splashy to answer that one for you as she has far more insight being that she works with them all but the NSW's are known for the pronounced eye bands. And yes I'd say 100% it's more frowned upon here because we have a finite amount of animals to work with. Luckily as more and more people are discovering Blue Tongue Skinks here in the states, the number of animals are exploding but we still have a limited gene pool. Because of this, some people used to line breed animals, which is another controversial topic altogether. Thankfully in recent years, we are starting to see US breeders working with established lines overseas in an attempt to introduce even more diversity. As for classifying them into separate subspecies, I do not personally believe that will happen even though it does seemingly make sense. About 20 years ago, tremendous scientific research was conducted on the Indonesian Skinks and many of the Gigas subspecies were classified. There is still so much work to be done with them (should Halmahera be classified separately from classic Indo?, what to do with some of the new island specific locales like Aru island that are popping up, is Irian Jaya gigas or scincoides? etc.). Scincoides scincoides is historically probably the most researched species (it is called the common Blue Tongue Skink after all) and if it hasn't been done yet, I have my doubts it ever will.


Better still get hold of Brown's "A guide to Australian Skinks" and you'll find your answers in there. Very thorough science based book.

Distribution of easterns is literally the entire east of the Australian continent : http://www.arod.com.au/arod/reptilia/Sq ... scincoides

Note overlap with natural range of central bluetongues :
http://www.arod.com.au/arod/reptilia/Sq ... tifasciata
and northern bluetongues :
https://bie.ala.org.au/species/urn:lsid ... a873c0cc51

IMO breeding a Queensland or NT or Victorian eastern bluetongue with a NSW eastern bluetongue is a great way of producing genetically strong babies as it diversifies their genetics and in places like the USA where the number eastern bluetongues is very restricted it has more pluses than negatives.
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splashy07
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Re: Eastern Blue Tongue question

Postby splashy07 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:32 am

My parting shot on this one, anyone questioning the locality/origins of my animals is more than welcome to contact the breeders of the parents. They were sold to me as NSW easterns and their offspring will be offered as such. Contact Ron Couto/Diana Mason with any issues of lineage.
My lone QLD eastern was a product of Ray Gurgui. Contact him if you wish, but I have not yet found a mate for that one therefore not producing any. I am certainly not going to be the one poking the proverbial hornets nest with people I trust implicitly and do business with. This can be taken all the way back to the original animals from Australia before the ban. Were they locale crosses? Are some of my Northerns locality crosses? We can go back to the dinosaur age. I'm done here,
Over and out
C.Cannon
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Re: Eastern Blue Tongue question

Postby C.Cannon » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:54 am

Hey I'm sorry I was just giving information I got when building family trees for my animals. I really didn't mean for it to be taken personally.

I think carpet python/diamond python community purity rules must be different than bluetongue purity rules. I was using those rules when researching the origins of the skinks I'm keeping. The Marcus Webb animals are really unique though in that they are from a female you can almost guarantee locality information on. You don't see that with most Australian reptiles in Europe/USA.

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