Fair Price Question

[Bv3boy]

Hey all!!

I’ve been researching BTS and considering adopting one for quite some time now. I found an available BTS to adopt. She’s a proven captive-bred female. She’s around 5 years old and may or may not be pregnant. She apparently successfully mated approximately 1 month ago but they’re not sure if she’s in fact pregnant. They aren’t sure if she properly brumated prior to breeding. She doesn’t have any known health issues and is on a diet of good quality rotating cat food and fruit (not a fan of veggies apparently).

They’re asking for $350 to adopt. Most of the breeders online sell juveniles and adults for $200-$300. Do you think the price is fair considering her situation?

Thanks in advance! Hope to become an active BTS owner in the future!

[mb606587]

Yes that is a very fair price. Almost too fair if you ask me if everything you were told is correct. Questions you need to ask the seller. How long has the person owned that particular skink? Where or from whom did the person acquire the skink? What subspecies of Blue Tongue Skink is it? Questions you need to ask yourself. If this skink is in fact gravid, do you have the ability to afford veterinary treatment if needed? Do you have the ability to house multiple baby skinks and give the proper care for them to thrive? Can you recognize the visible signs that a skink is not healthy and needs treatment? To me something isn't adding up with that price. A confirmed captive born and bred female skink would fetch MUCH more than what is being asked. Throw in the fact that it may be gravid and I'm suspicious.

[mb606587]

And the "breeders" online that are selling juveniles and adults for $200-$300 aren't breeders. They are selling imported animals.

[Bv3boy]

Great questions and advice. Thank you!!

I asked most of those questions. Here’s what i know:

They’ve had her for a few months. Prior to that she was left in her enclosure and merely fed for 5 years by the previous owner’s parents. She was initially purchased at a local reptile specialist store. She’s a Halmahera BTS. I have all the financial resources to care for her and her babies. I’ve researched BTS a great deal and have an exotic veterinarian that I regularly visit. I also have a close friend that works with a pet supplier that has experience with BTS babies. I’d plan on most likely selling the babies back to the reptile store and possibly keeping one for myself. Ultimately, I just want to give her a good home and safe enriching environment. I hate the idea of her just lying in a Tupperware container or being bought only to breed. She has a very sweet disposition despite her possible neglect and I want to give her the best life.

What is “gravid” exactly? As in, girthy or is it a color intensity? I’ve never heard of that term.

[Bv3boy]

Here’s a picture of her from the reptile store and of me with her on my shoulder. I’m not completely sure they they’ve identified her subspecies as a Halmahera BTS correctly. Her color markings don’t seem to fit.

[mb606587]

Gravid basically means pregnant. Is the term used for egg laying animals, which although the BTS gives birth to live young, it carries its embryos in eggs inside the body until they hatch internally. And yes that does not appear to be Halmahera to me. I can say with fair certainty that's a Merauke BTS. But my point being is that by asking questions, you are already noting conflicting information, so how trustworthy is the rest of the information you have been provided? However, I will say based off the few photos I see, it appears healthy. If that is in fact a CBB skink (which I am skeptical), that is an excellent price. If its an import, price is pretty standard.

[Bv3boy]

Thanks for clarifying what gravid means. I was aware of their giving live birth but not that specific term. Thanks as well for helping me identify her subspecies! I know a lot of people crossbreed them and it can become a bit muttled to identify them at times. My main concern is if she’s an Indonesian or Australian, in terms of the necessary humidity requirements. I will say that the store owner is VERY knowledgeable about snakes but there’s always a level of sucpician when buying any animal. People sometimes will say what they need to make a sale. I am skeptical about some of the information I’ve received so far. They did show me a picture, I’m not sure why, of her mating with the male last month. Perhaps to entice me more. I’m not so excited to have babies - I’ll make the expense to care for them best before finding homes for them all - I’m more focused on taking in this innocent BTS and giving it a great home. I’m thinking I may want to request proof of veterinary care and/or breeder certification documents if available. I’d rather not turn them off to letting me adopt her by asking for too much but it is very important. Either way; a vet visit would be needed ASAP should I take her in. Are there any ways I can avoid monetary costs by reviewing her physically/mentally to assess any onforseen issues prior to adopting?

Thanks again for all the input. It’s incredibly helpful!!!

[mb606587]

No problem. To ease your main concern, yes it is definitely an Indonesian species and Meraukes typically do well in humidity levels at 60% and higher. Being that the pet store owner wasn't able to accurately identify what species it is, there is a good chance this skink could produce hybrid babies if gravid, which isn't exactly ideal. And there is no guarantee that this skink will even produce. A lockup between a male and female skink isn't a guarantee of successful copulation. It wouldn't hurt to ask for proof that this animal was captive bred but I wouldn't expect you'd get any. If the age is correct, it would indicate this animal was produced in 2013. There were very, very few people who were able to produce captive bred Meraukes that year. Maybe less than 5 people in the country at that time. The term "Captive Bred" is frequently used by importers who collect gravid wild caught specimens and the babies are then produced in captivity, or Indonesian farmers who collect a bunch of wild caught animals, throw them in outdoor pens together, and then collect and sell the babies to importers after they inevitably breed. Some suggestions I would have to avoid potential problems would be to ensure that the animal is kept in proper conditions at the pet store. Is there a basking spot where temperatures are between 90-110 degrees? Are the humidity levels AT LEAST 50%? Is the enclosure proper size and does it appear its been regularly cleaned? Is the animal eating? Ask the pet shop owner if you can observe during feeding time to ensure. Is the animal a healthy weight? Judging by what I saw, it appears to be. It doesn't appear to have any issues around the mouth from what I can see, which can be common. Is there any discharge coming from the nose or mouth or does it appear to have difficulty breathing, which would be caused by a respiratory infection? Is there what appears to be tiny reddish insects the size of pinheads in the enclosure or on the skink's body (reptile mites)? Is there stuck shedded skink that has not been able to properly come off or is it missing toes? That would be indicative that the animal hasn't been kept in adequate humidity levels. Be advised, missing toes are fairly common and as long as they have healed over, it shouldn't pose a future problem but as I said is a sign that the animal has been kept in poor conditions. If this is in fact a long term captive animal, a vet visit MAY not be required if the animal is eating regularly, doesn't show any of the signs I just wrote, and acclimating well to your care. Pick up a scale and start weighing and recording your skink's weight weekly to determine if it is gravid.

[Bv3boy]

She didn’t appear to have any of the problematic symptoms you listed. I did notice she had a few patches of shed that I needed to rub off. She seemed to notice and flintched slightly. So, they may or may not have her in ideal humidity conditions. She was being kept in a plastic drawer but I’m not sure if that’s her permenant enclosure. I didn’t notice any problematic areas around her eyes, nostrils and mouth and her breathing was normal. She was extremely stout and surprisingly strong. Seemed a bit overt to being over-handled but settled down and relaxed once she was comfortable. I tried feeding her a wealworm but she wasn’t interested. She’s been on a set cat food/fruit diet for quite some time. There’s definitely a few question marks but overall she seemed to be healthy.

I’ll be sure to ask questions during the process. I’m going to make the decision this week. This is so helpful honestly. I can’t thank you enough!

[Bv3boy]

Could you possibly recommend the best vitamin supplements for both gravid and non-gravid female Merauke BTS? Also, the best type of scale to keep track of her weight? I’d venture to ask for cat food/dog food recommendations if you have the time.

[mb606587]

I don't use a multivitamin supplement. It's my opinion that if you are providing a proper diet, your skink will get what it needs through that. I do use calcium with vitamin d3 supplement and sprinkle on my skinks food once or twice a week. You can pick that up at any pet store and it's especially important to use if you're not providing uvb light. If that's the case, I'd sprinkle it twice a week. I feed Open Nature brand canned dog food and alternate between chicken and vegetables, Turkey and sweet potato, and beef and vegetable flavors. There's literally a ton of other dog foods you can use also. Read this thread and I go more in detail about how I feed...viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31469

Also be sure you check out the diet chart on this site...app.php/page/food-chart

Now if you determine that your skink is gravid, you will want to increase your feedings and then consider using a multivitamin supplement...http://www.bluetongueskink.org/pregnanc ... gue-skink/

[mb606587]

And any kitchen scale should work fine. They even have reptile brand scales but as with all other products marketed solely towards reptiles, they are a little pricier...https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s?k=reptile+scale

[Bv3boy]

Thanks for the links! They’re full of great info!

What would you consider a good tank size? I’ve read repeatedly that a 40 gallon enclosure is recommended. I plan to get her out at least once a day to handle and relax with her. I recently purchased a 40 gallon exoterra terrarium. “Large Wide”: 36” x 18” x 18”. Thoughts??

[mb606587]

My opinion is that a 40 gallon breeder is too small. I know many use them but Meraukes tend to be the largest of all Blue Tongues. Some reach lengths of 28", I've heard even over 30". The smallest size, I use is a 36" by 24" tub, which I'd still only recommend as the minimum. I think it's okay to temporarily house in one but for the long term, I'd recommend upgrading.

[Bv3boy]

I really appreciate all the great advice given. I can’t thank you enough.

Initially, I was interested in getting a bearded dragon. I’ve been interested in getting one for years. It wasn’t until I saw the BTS rescue that I seriously considered getting a BTS. After careful thought and lots of consideration; I think it’s best that I stick with a bearded dragon. Personality wise; they’re very similar to BTS. I know there’s not as much genetic variation due to focused breeding for desired colors and scale traits, but I’ll be more comfortable getting a verifiable CBB. At this point I wouldn’t be comfortable getting the BTS. There’s too many red flags and unknown variables. Hopefully someone with expertise in BTS will adopt her. I’d hate to think she’d just be sitting in a store possibly gravid and not getting everything she needs. Also, I can’t conscienisly adopt a possible wild caught animal - thus feeding into that specific type of pet trade.

Thanks again for all your help!

[mb606587]

No problem. Bearded Dragons are also excellent pets. I've owned both. Do thorough research. A lot of people own bearded dragons, much more so than BTS because they are cheaper and more readily available, so many people feel that after a few months of keeping a baby alive that they are experts and give terrible advice. I personally find the Bearded Dragons care a bit more challenging if you're doing it properly.

[mb606587]

And if you look long and hard, you will find some very cool color mprphs of Bearded Dragon. This is one a friend of mine produced and owns

7E1161E7-.jpg

[Bv3boy]

Well, things changed!! I found a woman that’s trying to rehome her 6 month old Halmahera BTS. The price is VERY fair given it’s age and that it’s captive born. Purchased at repticon; the mother was wild caught and the babies were captive born. I did a ton of research to compare the Halmahera and the Merauke but there’s not a lot online. I definitely feel more comfortable housing the Halmahera in the 40 gallon terrarium I have because it’s a bit smaller than the Merauke at full size. Is there any other major differences in husbandry with the Halmahera vs the Merauke? Also; any personality/behavioral differences between the two?

[Bv3boy]

Also......that bearded dragon is GORGEOUS!

[splashy07]

Halmaheras need the highest humidity of all, 80 plus is good. The Halmahera Islands rival Key West, Florida in humidity levels! Other than that, I have kept both and have not noticed any other differences personality wise.
That's quite a unique bearded dragon!! I used to breed citrus translucents some years back.