Aspiring BTS owner questions

[smosroka]

Hello everyone, I'm Magpie and in an attempt to patch a lifelong reptile-shaped hole in my life I'm planning to bring home a baby Northern in September~

(...long story short I'm based in the EU, that's when the next Hamm reptile fair takes place in Germany and I already know there is gonna be a new litter of June-July babies available for sale then, as well as likely leftovers from an April one)

Anyway I obviously set out to do my research annd. Well. Now I have a bunch of very random questions I really hope you can help me with!

1) I've already found and bought a nice (cheap ) 90x45x30 (approx 35"x18"x12") glass tank that apparently used to host a turtle off our local craigslist equivalent. I realize it's a bit too small for a fully grown skink, but I figure it should do just fine for a juvenile for a while(?)
The thing is, I can't help but be a bit worried about the height. Do you guys think it's not tall enough if I'm planning to heat with a bulb placed on top? I'm gonna be making a mesh cover anyway, should I straight out plan it to add like 10 cms of height to the tank?

2) Is cork mat ever used in terrariums? I wanted to block off the back and sides somehow, don't really like the look of stock wallpapers and the usual way people seem to go, styrofoam, glue and paint seems like it would just take valuable floor space. Is cork toxic somehow or not waterproof enough? Would an animal try to climb it?
Forgive me if that's a really stupid question, the only other 'terrarium' species I've kept before was ribbed newts and they happen to be like 95% aquatic. A backdrop wall... never really came up.

3) There was a science paper linked to somewhere on these forums that I actualy found interesting/entertaining (attaching a GPS tracker to a skink is apparently an adventure ahaha) focusing mostly on their habitat. It seems kinda like wild northerns... skink through old leaves a lot? Did you ever try giving skinks like a tub with leaves for enrichment, do you think crinkled up pieces of baking sheet/thick paper would do a similar job etc?

4) Does anyone have experience with feeding wild-caught snails as a treat? We do have a cabin in a very rural area with quite healthy nature (judging by tree frogs and newts being present in our garden), so I assume it's parasites I should maybe be worried about?

[lifesagame]

Hi! I’m new to blue tongue skinks so I can’t really answer all the questions but I thought I’d say hi and welcome anyway

Also I think cork mat would be safe from a toxicity point of view, it may depends what holds it together (I’m guessing it’s the stuff like you get in cork notice boards that’s sort of squashed together) but natural cork bark seems popular in skink homes. I have a baby northern and I’d say he does love to climb, or tried to at first but discovered it was harder to do when the surface is hard and slippery. It seems to depend on the individual skink but they may try to climb the background and they have sharp claws so pieces may end up getting shredded.

[Gsxrgrl21]

Hello! I'm also a newbie as well,great questions! I don't have the answers,but I'm curious to see others comment! Good luck in the future with your new baby!!

[kingofnobbys]

Hello everyone, I'm Magpie and in an attempt to patch a lifelong reptile-shaped hole in my life I'm planning to bring home a baby Northern in September~

(...long story short I'm based in the EU, that's when the next Hamm reptile fair takes place in Germany and I already know there is gonna be a new litter of June-July babies available for sale then, as well as likely leftovers from an April one)

Anyway I obviously set out to do my research annd. Well. Now I have a bunch of very random questions I really hope you can help me with!

1) I've already found and bought a nice (cheap ) 90x45x30 (approx 35"x18"x12") glass tank that apparently used to host a turtle off our local craigslist equivalent. I realize it's a bit too small for a fully grown skink, but I figure it should do just fine for a juvenile for a while(?)
The thing is, I can't help but be a bit worried about the height. Do you guys think it's not tall enough if I'm planning to heat with a bulb placed on top? I'm gonna be making a mesh cover anyway, should I straight out plan it to add like 10 cms of height to the tank?

<<<< if it's a fish tank type glass tank …. it's not appropriate for a BT , might be OK for a baby BT and maybe a very small juvenile (under 20cm long) , bigger and the skink WILL BE CLIMBING out or trying to . 12" tall is way too shallow and mesh lids are hopeless
>>> mesh lids block a big chunk of the UV for the UVB source if mounted on top the mesh , see https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/vi ... 4&t=235611
>>> mesh lids make it very hard to keep a viv warm , especially at night
>>> mesh lids are NOT SECURE
>>> mesh lids are NOT CAT or dog proof.
I recommend a modified 100L to 150L tub as a rearing tank for a baby or a juvenile BT up to about 12 months old , see this for how to set one up : like this https://www.bunnings.com.au/all-set-149 ... d_p2583377 which are W:575mm H:480mm L:790mm and are very strong , UV stabilised, and stackable are perfect as rearing tanks , if modified thusly https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/vi ... 4&t=233480

A baby BT will need mostly live insects in it's diet , feed 2 or 3 times per day , as many it wants per feed (give fast moving insects like crickets , locusts, roaches 2 or 3 at time, let the skink hunt them down and eat them , drop a couple more in , repeat til the skink looses interest. Slow moving insects like blowfly gents & pupae, black soldier fly lavae & pupae , silkworms can be left in suitable (escape proof) feeding bowl with the chopped/grated veg and greens for the skink to graize on at it's leisure.
If you can't access quality live insects (listed above) , mealworms and superworms are treats ONLY , Repashi GRUBPIE is an excellent alternative and fall back. For more info on selecting feeder insects see https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/vi ... 4#p1807834
I never feed cat or dog food to my skinks , many do , but it's more a keeper choice and economic choice , wild BTs never find cat or dog food in the bush or sevannahs , but suburban BTs are known to raid cat and dog bowls (opportunistically) .
IMO cat and dog foods are entirely unsuitable as a protein source and fat source for a skink , because the proteins are highly processed and totally wrong forms ….. only non insect non plant source of protein my skinks get is an occasion bit of scrabbled or hard or soft boiled chicken egg , or boiled lean chicken mince or VetaFarm lizard pellets (based on seabird flesh)

2) Is cork mat ever used in terrariums? I wanted to block off the back and sides somehow, don't really like the look of stock wallpapers and the usual way people seem to go, styrofoam, glue and paint seems like it would just take valuable floor space. Is cork toxic somehow or not waterproof enough? Would an animal try to climb it?
<<<< I can't see a problem with cork bark used as hide , and basking spots …. cork matt - I think the skink will destroy it.
some people get high density PVC and shave / sculp it the cover it with a concrete like sealer that's tough, impervious and textured to look and feel like rough sandstone - more bother than it's worth IMO.
BTs are quite capable climbers despite their short legs and arms , especially as babies and juveniles , and very inquisitive too.

For bedding /substrate my BTs are on a mixture of COURSE GRADE KRITTERS' KRUMBLE and natural gluegum (eucalypt) leaf litter (I collect the leaves off my front lawn and garden and have a never ending copious supply (from my mature 40 yr old gumtree …. I planted It as a sapling the year we bought our house)…. My George and Mildred (10 yr Eastern BTs) love the mix and love fossicking through the mix .
My vivs are 1.2m L x 60cm W x 45cm T and home made using marine plywood and have sliding glass front doors , and fixed glass ends (my skinks love being able to watch us).
I run 26W UVB200s in NanoHoods for UV , and have Philips par38 incandescent spot globes for basking globes.

Your climate is very cold , you should consider a ceramic heat emitter on a thermostat to keep your skink warm as well as the basking globe , wont hurt to provide 7W heatpad under a layer of tiles under the hide too (to help keep it warm overnight and give it a warm place have siestas during the day when it doesn't want to bask.
The UV requirements and temperatures and humidity levels depend on the species of BT you will get.
Northerns, Easterns, Blotched and Western BTs require a minimum of 5%UVB and a basking spot at about 36 degC , Northerns can do with 10% to 12% UVB & a basking spot at about 38 - 40 degC.
Humidity levels are best kept under 70% for Australian species of BT, I cant comment on Indonesian species of BTS ( illegal to keep here ).

Forgive me if that's a really stupid question, the only other 'terrarium' species I've kept before was ribbed newts and they happen to be like 95% aquatic. A backdrop wall... never really came up.

3) There was a science paper linked to somewhere on these forums that I actualy found interesting/entertaining (attaching a GPS tracker to a skink is apparently an adventure ahaha) focusing mostly on their habitat. It seems kinda like wild northerns... skink through old leaves a lot? Did you ever try giving skinks like a tub with leaves for enrichment, do you think crinkled up pieces of baking sheet/thick paper would do a similar job etc?
<<<< I doubt you'll find vet who is prepared to microchip a skink, and you wont be able to do until it's fully grown (about 2 years old).
Attaching a GPS tracker to a skink.... why ?
If you a going to it free range , most do this for a while each day inside (under supervision) and some in appropriate climates (read sub tropical / tropical and in others only on hot summer days in the garded …. again closely supervised, I don't see the purpose of attaching a GPS tracking chip to the skink ,

4) Does anyone have experience with feeding wild-caught snails as a treat? We do have a cabin in a very rural area with quite healthy nature (judging by tree frogs and newts being present in our garden), so I assume it's parasites I should maybe be worried about?
<<<< wild caught snails are VERY RISKY - you can't be sure what they have eaten (lots of gardeners and farmers (crops) regard snails as pests and put out poisons for them -BAD NEWS for your skink if you feed a snail who has eaten a bait, and they are prone to infestation with nematodes and other nasty parasites.
If you look around you can likely find a snail farmer who farms snails for human consumption - these would be you best bet , or breeding your own snails perhaps (this way you can be sure what they've eaten and that they are "clean" & poison free.
I buy my snails for my two eastern bluetongues as treats …. and they love them !!!

If you have the space in the shed or laundry , consider farming your own garden snails , and perhaps starting a cricket or roach farm , and another great feeder insect is silkworms (my BTs love them almost as much as their snails …. but get a couple of big silkworms EVERY DAy (I farm my own silkworms in 4L Tupperware style tubs on mulberry leaves that I buy).

[kayla990]

Welcome! Just adding on some thoughts

1) I don't see an issue with the tank for Juvenile - but they do grow very quickly so expect to change it out within 6+ months.
While I know people advise against glass, we've not had any issues there. If planning for a Northern, make sure there is good airflow (such as a fan along with ventilation strips) since glass tanks may hold onto more humidity. While the height doesn't sound too bad for a juvenile, watch out for them reaching up or leaning on the glass surface with a bent back, especially while growing.
Not sure how to effectively add 10cm onto the tank with the mesh cover, but if there are any gaps be aware they are little escape artists (and strong! it will need to be secure as they would be able to pop it off even when little).
And for sure get a heat source/basking light ^__^

2) Yep, seen cork mats used in terrariums (you'll likely see tanks at Hamm with that setup!). As mentioned, bits may fall off from their claws - so ideally reinforce it with something in case small pieces come off and they try to eat it! And they'll likely try to climb it.. they love to explore

3) Seems a good idea to let them rummage through leaves (but be careful with taking any from outdoors, there could be unwanted insects hidden in them. Ideally get dedicated sterilized leaves).

Attaching a GPS tracker to a skink.... why ?

(I don't believe they are wanting to get one on their own skink, but that other researchers did to see where they went/explored in the wild )

4) I would be cautious of using wild-caught snails. As you say, parasites are an issue that doesn't seem worth it (along with not knowing if people may have used pesticides close by). You could set up a breeding tank and 'purge' them; which is basically keeping them for a few weeks to allow any bad pesticides to go through their system and you can check their health. But realistically, there aren't good methods for knowing if they are 100% parasite free.
(So cool you get tree frogs and newts! Even though they may seem healthy, I believe it's very rare for wild reptiles/amphibians to not have some kind of parasite / gut worm - so may be better to get captive bred ones to start your own breeding).

[smosroka]

Hello, thanks for the interest and info! Nice to meet you~

SO first of all, before this gets any further... no, I don't intend to put a GPS tracker on any animal, skink or otherwise I was referring to this paper. Please do yourself a favor and scroll down for some very amusing photos of skinks in little 'tactical vests'

(as for the paper itself, personal highlights translated from science speak include "we tried gluing something to a lizard and it did not go very well" and "we did not find evidence any animals got tangled up in vegetation or w/e. We did find one particular skink stuck in a crevice (twice), but we think that one was just kind of an idiot")


Back to my actual questions... No worries, I'm fully aware a skink is going to grow out of an enclosure this size pretty quickly and I am open to an upgrade. Full disclosure? I'm currently living with a family member who kind of needs to be introduced to any major changes gradually in the interest of maximum household harmony. Rather like a new pet reptile that way... I thought I'd give her a couple months of adjusting to a smaller big tank before springing a full-sized glass 'coffin' on her

I guess I'm definitely planning for an extension upwards then! I was thinking of fitting a kind of lightweight(ish!) wooden frame that fits snugly on top of the actual tank and then a separate mesh cover made to rest on that, so that I won't have to lift the entire contruction every time I want to open it. All with appropriate hardware store handles+latches thrown in for security. It would be easier to draw than describe, probably, but ideally a skink wouldn't be able to reach the mesh from the inside at all. ...of course that's just theory. Practice, we will see!
PS. I don't have a cat. I love cats, but it wouldn't be a good fit. Neither are we planning on a dog anytime soon

Also ugh, good point. I'm kinda hoping to fill enough of the tank with Fun Things To Hide Under (fake greenery, bits of cork/roots/branches) the baby will spend more time digging through these and less exploring in order to find a better habitat, but :/ any tips for discouraging the behaviour? iirc it can lead to the spine not developing properly, right?

I'm honestly not too worried about temperature, we don't have air conditioning in the buiding and the flat just... does not go below base temps of 21-22C. I'm too warmth-loving myself for that, for one. Factor in the cork mat, which is commonly used for isolation, and I really think we are gonna be good on that front. Not to say I'm just gonna assume it's fine and leave it there of course, if I test out the set up and notice an issue I will be sure to add a source of heat.
Humidity on the other hand is definitely something I'm already gonna have to firmly keep in mind; I'm still looking into substrate options for example (I'm a bit more limited with options in Poland than say, someone residing in the US, for example the much-glorified aspen shavings are impossible to get as far as I know) annnd I'm guessing I'm probably gonna want one that doesn't really keep humidity in. Thanks for the tip with the fan, I'm def gonna remember that.

If any real leaves will be happening, they will be picked freshly fallen, carefully wiped with mild disinfectant, rinsed and dried. Honestly, just something that occured to me could be fun and cute? Otherwise it can just have baking sheet scraps haha.

Yeah, the wild snails really don't seem worth the risk. Way more enriching for the owner than for the pet in the long run, I suppose x) I should have specified that by 'very rural' I do in fact mean 'backyard flows seamlessly into forest on one side and wild meadow the other, 3+km to nearest asphalt road, only farming going on in the entire village happens to be a single cornfield and a herd of like 40 cows'. It makes me fairly confident nothing I could catch there would be actually poisonous, parasites though... yup. I guess there is really no way around that one, is there.

On feeding in general... I'm kind of of the opinion variety is the spice of life, especially for an opportunistic little omnivore? I'm gonna keep the insect recommendation in mind (reminds me of baby songbirds, honestly? I've only ever fostered insectivores, but from what I read even the species who eat seeds as adults are fed mostly insects at first) and I do plan to base a decent part of the protein intake on them, but i'm still probably gonna be mixing in cat/dog food regularly. If nothing else I have to confess I like the security of knowing, if I ever have to go away unexpectedly for a week I can find someone willing&competent to feed my pet without the food ending up free and all over my floor

[kingofnobbys]

Hello, thanks for the interest and info! Nice to meet you~

SO first of all, before this gets any further... no, I don't intend to put a GPS tracker on any animal, skink or otherwise I was referring to this paper. Please do yourself a favor and scroll down for some very amusing photos of skinks in little 'tactical vests'

(as for the paper itself, personal highlights translated from science speak include "we tried gluing something to a lizard and it did not go very well" and "we did not find evidence any animals got tangled up in vegetation or w/e. We did find one particular skink stuck in a crevice (twice), but we think that one was just kind of an idiot")


Back to my actual questions... No worries, I'm fully aware a skink is going to grow out of an enclosure this size pretty quickly and I am open to an upgrade. Full disclosure? I'm currently living with a family member who kind of needs to be introduced to any major changes gradually in the interest of maximum household harmony. Rather like a new pet reptile that way... I thought I'd give her a couple months of adjusting to a smaller big tank before springing a full-sized glass 'coffin' on her

I guess I'm definitely planning for an extension upwards then! I was thinking of fitting a kind of lightweight(ish!) wooden frame that fits snugly on top of the actual tank and then a separate mesh cover made to rest on that, so that I won't have to lift the entire contruction every time I want to open it. All with appropriate hardware store handles+latches thrown in for security. It would be easier to draw than describe, probably, but ideally a skink wouldn't be able to reach the mesh from the inside at all. ...of course that's just theory. Practice, we will see!
PS. I don't have a cat. I love cats, but it wouldn't be a good fit. Neither are we planning on a dog anytime soon

Also ugh, good point. I'm kinda hoping to fill enough of the tank with Fun Things To Hide Under (fake greenery, bits of cork/roots/branches) the baby will spend more time digging through these and less exploring in order to find a better habitat, but :/ any tips for discouraging the behaviour? iirc it can lead to the spine not developing properly, right? …. I'm not so sure sleeping with it's chest up against the glass will have any effect other than cooling and looking comical …. my BTS had a habit sleeping in some very strange (and looked to me uncomfortable) positions especially as babies and juveniles), the dragons did similar things too …. it think it's just a spoilt tame pet lizard thing ….
What will cause spinal deformations are lack of dietary calcium coupled with insufficient exposure to UVB , it's called MBD and it can set in fast , and poor / inadequate diet .

I'm honestly not too worried about temperature, we don't have air conditioning in the buiding and the flat just... does not go below base temps of 21-22C. I'm too warmth-loving myself for that, for one. Factor in the cork mat, which is commonly used for isolation, and I really think we are gonna be good on that front. Not to say I'm just gonna assume it's fine and leave it there of course, if I test out the set up and notice an issue I will be sure to add a source of heat.
Humidity on the other hand is definitely something I'm already gonna have to firmly keep in mind; I'm still looking into substrate options for example (I'm a bit more limited with options in Poland than say, someone residing in the US, for example the much-glorified aspen shavings are impossible to get as far as I know) annnd I'm guessing I'm probably gonna want one that doesn't really keep humidity in. Thanks for the tip with the fan, I'm def gonna remember that.

If any real leaves will be happening, they will be picked freshly fallen, carefully wiped with mild disinfectant, rinsed and dried. Honestly, just something that occured to me could be fun and cute? Otherwise it can just have baking sheet scraps haha. <<< I use exactly the same types of leaves Northerns , Blotchies and Easterns encounter in their natural habitat , and have evolved with , since I live in NSW Australia and live in the natural range of eastern BTs , I even have regular visits from wild ones to my yard and garden very regularly.
Careful of conifer leaves …. the oils in the needles are toxic to skinks. Leaves dropped by broad leafed trees should be fine , just check to ensure the leaves themselves are not poisonous or toxic (incase the skink eats some while catching it's insects and if food falls on the litter.

Yeah, the wild snails really don't seem worth the risk. Way more enriching for the owner than for the pet in the long run, I suppose x) I should have specified that by 'very rural' I do in fact mean 'backyard flows seamlessly into forest on one side and wild meadow the other, 3+km to nearest asphalt road, only farming going on in the entire village happens to be a single cornfield and a herd of like 40 cows'. It makes me fairly confident nothing I could catch there would be actually poisonous, parasites though... yup. I guess there is really no way around that one, is there.

On feeding in general... I'm kind of of the opinion variety is the spice of life, especially for an opportunistic little omnivore? I'm gonna keep the insect recommendation in mind (reminds me of baby songbirds, honestly? I've only ever fostered insectivores, but from what I read even the species who eat seeds as adults are fed mostly insects at first) and I do plan to base a decent part of the protein intake on them, but i'm still probably gonna be mixing in cat/dog food regularly. If nothing else I have to confess I like the security of knowing, if I ever have to go away unexpectedly for a week I can find someone willing&competent to feed my pet without the food ending up free and all over my floor

[AndrewSeike]

Hi magpie,

Congrats on your blue tongue adventure. I commend you for doing for research early! There are protocols on how to keep wild snails and how to have them cleansed. But you can weigh the risk versus rewards after you do your research. you also have an option of after the cleanse to freeze the snails then thaw them out. As I said there are clear methods for feeding wild snails to blue tongues.

Best of luck,

Andrew

[kayla990]

Seems like you're doing well with the research ^__^ there is one thing that still stood out though:

I'm honestly not too worried about temperature, we don't have air conditioning in the buiding and the flat just... does not go below base temps of 21-22C...if I test out the set up and notice an issue I will be sure to add a source of heat.

While it's good that you have an idea of temperature range in your home this won't be warm enough for a Bluey (both Australian and Indonesian types). They need a basking spot to keep healthy (especially to aid digestion). If ours has been slept in the cool end, he'll have near to no appetite (and that's only between 21-24c in the cool end). Reptiles can be quite stressed from temperature fluctuations in the home, so in tank heaters with thermostats can help keep them in good condition. Ideally you'll want a cool end and warm gradient in the tank (so in the coldest areas, our tank is around 21c, warm end 26c and basking spot is around 35+c). Something that shouldn't be overlooked, as I don't think they'll do great long term with only 21-22c range.

Humidity on the other hand is definitely something I'm already gonna have to firmly keep in mind; I'm still looking into substrate options for example

Tricky to say in regards to which subspecies you're thinking, but a good inbetween substrate is cococoir (can get them in expanding bricks, they'll be everywhere at Hamm expo) or a type of 'repti-bark' since both of these can be kept dry or have water added if you get an Indonesian species.

Goodluck!