Bump On Tail?

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Szereza
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Bump On Tail?

Postby Szereza » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:14 am

I'd just like to get some opinion on what the bump on Linus' tail may be? I'm really worried. :(

Image

The scales on the tail also looks a bit raised too, would that be due to humidity? I've been keeping the humidity level between 70-80% currently, should I make it higher?

He shed a few days ago and I think it went pretty smooth as most of it has come off, 'gloves' and all. There is still a little bit left on his tail and back but if I touch it even lightly, Linus wriggles like mad so any advice on that would be appreciated too!

Thank you. :(
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Re: Bump On Tail?

Postby kayla990 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:34 pm

Initial thoughts look like it was an old cut that has healed over time.. Or do you know for sure it wasn't there before? Otherwise.. at a guess - perhaps a indentation from getting the tail stuck somewhere (but would have thought it would have been more damage to the skin if it was that). I'm aware that scales can become raised from mites (can check but wiping down the body with a wet paper towel), otherwise a bit stumped! Hope you'll find out, as it does look pretty strange..
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Re: Bump On Tail?

Postby aaronhouts » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:25 pm

If this is old and there's a possibility that it's something that you may have not noticed, it may be a scar from something in the past and not a big deal.

However, if you think that it's something new, then it may be the signs of low humidity. It takes a little while for the effects of a new environment to set in so the good shed may have been from the previous setup. I think this may be environmental.

As you requested before, I've attached some pics of our enclosures along with an explanation.
Here is the truth of the situation as I see it:

As humans, we tend to anthropomorphize our reptiles which is often detrimental to their health. WE want them to have a huge enclosure because that's what WE would want or because it's what WE want them to have. WE want them to have large enclosures with lots of room to explore because that's what WE would want or what WE want them to have. WE often want t be able to see them in what we think to be a naturalistic environment and design elaborate display enclosures. However, these enclosures are often hard to heat and ineffective at holding humidity. They are often also hard to clean. These three characteristics are often fatal to sensitive species such as Halmaheras. The good intentions you had when designing Linus' habitat may be working against him.

However, after watching the behaviors of our animals and after seeing their health, we've come to these conclusions and ended up with these enclosures.

Our Halmaheras usually hide. They tend to like smaller enclosures with not much floor space and not much height. They like to be hidden in smaller spaces where they feel enclosed on all sides and that that they are not accessible to predators from above.
In addition, these enclosures can obtain maximum temperature with the minimum amount of heat. Heat removes humidity and this is bad. In addition, smaller shorter enclosures hold humidity better.

Here are two case studies:

We raised Scout in a large enclosure that was 48" long by 24" deep by 14" high. She had an expensive Mist King misting system that sprayed her from two different nozzles twice a day on a timer. She struggled with humidity related issues. Issues such as eye bubbles were common as well as foot and toe issues. She grew big and strong despite of these things with a huge amount of effort from us.

We raised Lucky in tubs. He started in a V18 tub which is 18" long by 7.5" wide by 3.5" high. He moved to a V35 short which is 20" long by 15" wide and 3.5" high. He now lives in a v70 tub (just like Scout) which is 33.5" long by 17.5” wide x 5.5" tall. He didn't have a misting system of any kind and we never misted him until later. He has NEVER had shedding issues or shown the signs of humidity problems such as the eye bubbles or foot problems that I told you about. We have had the most success with him and put in minimal effort comparatively.

I've attached pics of the adult tubs. Notice how small and snug they are. Notice the condensation from the humidity. This is good.

Halmaheras are a difficult species to keep and sometimes simpler is better. I'll leave it at that for now, give you a minute to consider and answer your questions as you have them.

I can see that you're dedicated to keeping this wonderful species and that's why I figured I'd share. Good luck and let me know what questions you have.
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Last edited by aaronhouts on Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bump On Tail?

Postby kayla990 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:42 am

Interesting ideas aaron, though I'd have to respectfully disagree on some of the points :D

aaronhouts wrote:As humans, we tend to anthropomorphize our reptiles which is often detrimental to their health.

This bit I can completely agree with, along with us wanting to give large enclosures as we feel like it is best (potentially with the idea of "oh, if I was a lizard, I'd prefer..). I'm aware that a lot can thrive in much smaller enclosures and perfectly healthy (as long as it's not under the very basic minimum of course, as that is there for a reason. However, I would argue its still on the too small side of things).

aaronhouts wrote:WE often want t be able to see them in what we think to be a naturalistic environment

True, but a lot of more naturalistic environments can also allow for more natural behaviours. For example, it provides more chance of climbing over things, digging around, smelling new things from items like new plants, natural grazing behaviour as well as potential health benefits (such as springtails being able to remove mould from the enclosure - arguably important with higher humidity enclosures). So in this case, it's a mix of what we want to see and known behavioural changes.

aaronhouts wrote:However, these enclosures are often hard to heat and ineffective at holding humidity. They are often also hard to clean. These three characteristics are often fatal to sensitive species such as Halmaheras.

Yep, can definitely see it being a challenge in large tanks, but not at all impossible. We have a Halmahera in a large naturalistic tank and having zero problems so far in regards to humidity and heating. I do agree it depends a lot on the setup and equipment which can be expensive to do correctly. If done wrong it can be very dangerous. Cleaning can go both ways - in naturalistic tanks it's not needed to clean the substrate frequently from the springtails and isopods actively 'cleaning' the substrate. But trying to move around plants and objects can be more tricky and can be less efficient when trying to clean 3D backgrounds compared to something more sterile like plastic :wink:

aaronhouts wrote: The good intentions you had when designing Linus' habitat may be working against him.

If the readings of temperature and humidity (along with full successful sheds) are fine then I wouldn't have seen any issue here. As which parts would you say were working against him? (just curious!)

aaronhouts wrote: Here are two case studies: ....Issues such as eye bubbles were common as well as foot and toe issues.

That's pretty interesting to see you've been able to do a comparison. However, since we've had ours - we've not seen any such problems in a large natural viv. So I would argue that something in the tank was not balanced during your testing. How long did it take before the signs were there? As it's true that we've only had our Bluey since November, but I would have presumed we would see something similar by now if there was a imbalance.

aaronhouts wrote:Our Halmaheras usually hide.

From what I'm observing, hiding if not related to personality - seems to be from lower humidity. For us, our Bluey is out constantly (I'm at home all day, so I know this for a fact). Since we've got ours it's not uncommon to see them out continuously from 6:30am until 5pm (times can change such as from 11am-8pm, but this seems to be average for now). Basically, hiding is very rare for us, so thought I'd mention the comparison to that :D



TL;DR - agree it is more expensive and challenging to set up a large naturalistic enclosure. Besides for our own viewing benefit it seems there are more beneficial behaviours if done correctly (exploring more/exercise, high activity levels, grazing, opportunity to smell interesting things, enrichment, clean-up crew for subtrate health). But if done wrong, agree it can harm health wise from bad sheds/heating issues.
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Re: Bump On Tail?

Postby splashy07 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:12 pm

When I had mine some years back I kept them in a 30 breeder, which was the exact footprint of a 40 breeder without the added height. 30 breeder is 12"h. Using a combo mix of repti-bark and cypress mulch combined with a huge water dish and the screen top completely covered with just a hole cut in the foil for the light, they did fine. Sometimes they'd hide, sometimes they wouldn't but there was no set rule. Unfortunately though, Halms usually end up in the hands of inexperienced owners who found their blue tongues in a pet shop or at an expo, sold by ignorant people who had no clue of their care. Also inexpensive (with the exception of the axanthics) many that can't afford captive bred animals will buy these imports, and will not have funds for elaborate vivs. Many animals suffer due to the ignorance of humans. I praise those of you who will stick with these gorgeous animals, despite their higher maintenance requirements. Mine were given to a friend when I decided to go all Aussie, so I know where they are and that they're being cared for.
BTW, he keeps them in tubs also.
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Re: Bump On Tail?

Postby Szereza » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:06 pm

Thank you for all your responses. I'm not really sure what to take on all of this now though, haha.. I think the thread has steered towards mainly the whole tub versus viv enclosures! Which isn't a bad thing, it was very interesting to read everyone's responses. I'm just not.. too sure what to take on it currently.

In regards to whether he had the bump before.. I don't think he did? Although I really can't say for sure though.. my memory has been a bit hazy lately. I have however booked an appointment with a vet who specialises in reptiles for next Saturday so I'll find out then! Hopefully! *fingers crossed*

I haven't taken him out since as I wanted to leave him be for now as he's still pretty huffy at me even when I'm changing his water or spot cleaning but at least he's still eating, as long as I ain't like.. hovering (or where he can still see me from his viv). The minute he spots me, he does step backwards even when he's already in his hide so.. :(
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Re: Bump On Tail?

Postby splashy07 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:18 am

The tub vs other type enclosure is a humidity issue too, important to a Haly. We all want to look at our animals and interact with them, but sometimes their needs aren't correctly met because of this. Unfortunately these are all imported, (I've never been aware of a cbb Halmahera, correct me if I'm wrong) and there could be something manifesting itself from previous mishandling/neglect. The importers do not care about humidity or any of their other needs. You would not want to see the way reptiles arrive in their country of destination. Just keep an eye on him and keep us updated with your vet visit. All the best.
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Re: Bump On Tail?

Postby kayla990 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:10 pm

Whoops sorry for going on a tangent earlier :D as said, we're all for the best care - especially with Halmaheras having lots of problems from humidity issues.

Szereza wrote:I haven't taken him out since as I wanted to leave him be for now as he's still pretty huffy at me even when I'm changing his water or spot cleaning but at least he's still eating, as long as I ain't like.. hovering (or where he can still see me from his viv). The minute he spots me, he does step backwards even when he's already in his hide so..

He'll get used to you I'm sure! It's pretty normal for them to hide or backup when still new to a home (especially when they know they've been seen). Although we've had ours since he was very tiny, we can still get the the same reaction (definitely not as much now after ~4months, but we can still see him sneaking around sometimes in the morning).

It's always a good idea to give them time to acclimate to everything around them (average 1-2 weeks, which is so difficult to resist!). When you feel it's appropriate it's still fine to get them out even when they are feeling shy, huffy or may resist being picked up. In the morning if ours is being more in this mood; after we've got him out he's still happy as can be! Then once back in the tank, he'll do zoomies and seemingly not care about us being around or watching anymore. So I would say it's pretty normal for them to be huffy/shy especially in the early days, I'm sure you'll win him over with time :D
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