Halmahera scale issues - scale rot,blister disease,pink bump or sore thing?

[EGriff94]

right then a quick bit of background info,
last month i thought i was getting a eastern bts, but upon getting my new baby home and looking at other easterns it became obvious he was wasn't that at all, definitely an indonesian, 99% sure hes a halmahera. of course id set up and researched easterns so i had to quickly change it up and read into everything i could. hes a captive farmed baby, which i believe is wild parents but captive born? pet shop when asked about his hatch date said they didnt know " our supplier deals with so many its hard to keep track" . i read that halmaheras need very high humidity, so ive been keeping him in 80% range, dropping no lower than 60, no higher than 90. hes got 12% uvb lighting and ceramic heat bulb with a programmable thermostat , so it never gets colder than 26' Celsius, and hottest peak temperature during his midday spike is 35' C (both readings at cold end of vivarium). flooring is a mix of sphagnum moss, coco coir, jungle bark and some reptile safe dirt .

now, onto the issue(s) at hand, ill include the 2 not mentioned in the post title, just in case they also relate to the main one in a way im not aware..
when we first got him he had a little bump on his back, i checked for mites and ticks, but the scales never lifted, nor did anything turn up floating in his bath water. i didnt appear to grow or get any nastier looking so i put that down to a healing wound from another skink/ transport from Indonesia. its currently got a bit rough looking but im not too worried at this point..

then he had his first shed, this was before i realised how high he needed the humidity so we had a few issuses with incomplete shed on his back leg, it looked a bit swollen too. many baths and gentle swabbing removed that, but his leg is still swollen over a week later - is this something to be concerned about? or does it just need more time?

THE MAIN ISSUE:
after that first shed about 2 weeks ago, he got this little bumpy swelling on his tail. i thought like the first one on his back that he mightve just scratched it, but over a few days its only got bigger and more sore looking. before and after pics included. - what has caused this? is it the start of scale rot or blister disease? how should it be treated?

my partner went to the vets around the corner, and they refused to even give any basic advice at all, so currently trying to track down a good exotics veterinary practice thats not too far away that will take him on. Till then i have purchased a iodine solution called tamodine by vetark which im hoping will stop anything nasty coming into the sore / dealing with whats already there. If this nasty is caused by the bedding material being to moist, any tips on keeping a stupidly high humidity without getting a soggy floor would be perfect, putting a water bowl near his heat bulb only gets me to 60% humidity so im a bit stumped really.

[kayla990]

Agree it's looking like you've got a Halmahera. It's maddening how often shops give the wrong ID...! Tricky to say what they mean with 'captive farmed baby', but would presume the same as you did - with a wild parent but captive born (especially with Indonesian species... Australian types are nearly all captive born/bred).

So far sounds like a good/recommended setup. Just something to make sure I'm reading correctly

and hottest peak temperature during his midday spike is 35' C (both readings at cold end of vivarium)

So at one point both the cold and hot end reaches 35C? Just wanted to double check!

Of course, I'm in no way claiming to be a vet (fingers crossed you can find one soon, such a shame your local one didn't give any form of advice in the meantime.. presume they don't want to be liable) - but there are a lot of things it could be caused by.
For example:
- Bacterial infection: I believe these can cause abscesses, and not always directly where an injury occurred.
- Burns: is it possible for your Bluey to reach the heating element? When young, we've found they can climb really well. If there is any possibility, I'd get a guard for it.
- Fungal infection: Can't specifically see signs of this after checking some reference images, but it's something that gets worse over time
- Parasites: as you've already checked this out, something you're already aware can happen!
- Calcification: while unlikely, if reptiles get too much calcium it can create hard bumps on the body (since you've got a juvenile, thought I'd mention it since it can be difficult to know how much calcium to give).

Wish could help further on that point! But definitely seek a professional for it.

With humidity: we've also got a Halmahera.. and we find that limiting ventilation holes helps out (so we have towels on top of the top ventilation strip) but to prevent bacteria build up, when running fans, we use a fogger at the same time. Along with large water dishes (close-ish to the warm end, so it has a higher evaporation rate - like you said you're already doing!) and mixing in large amounts of sphagnum moss, we rely on commercial products.. so a room humidifier, misting system etc. We find that using a pressurized water spray (for gardens) is much easier compared to using a handhold spray (and generally not too pricey). Once sprayed, it seems to retain the water more if you mix the soil by hand.

Hopefully some pointers!

[splashy07]

Sounds like good advice so far. Unfortunately, 'captive farmed baby' is just a pretty way of saying import. Supposedly breeding 'farms' exist in their country of origin, but more often than not it is a product of an imported gravid female which has been to hell and back again as far as treatment by humans. Many come in with infections and parasites. Try and find an exotic vet ASAP, as this is most likely internal and not going to go away any time soon. I am just hoping you did not pay the price of an Eastern. Best of luck with the little guy.

[EGriff94]

Thanks for replying. Hoping to get to a exotics vet this weekend if theres a appointment available. Hate having him in this state. I feel like im failing him.

Ive got my thermostat currently set up so the temperature reading is taken from the cold end, but im going to swap it to the hot end this weekend if i get the chance. Somethings not quite right or needs tweaking as hes always staying at the hot end, never the cool and never in his water dish. Plus theres some 'underfloor heating' from my beardie below, so im wondering if its still not hot enough for him even though everything would suggest over heating instead. I mean, its really cold in our flat at the moment but i didn't think it was that bad.. We've got one of those thermostats you can program - micro climate prime 2 i think it was called - ive currently got it set up to start the day at 26c around 730am, ramping up gradually to 35c at midday and then slowly down to 26c again by 8pm and throughout the night till it loops back to 730 again. Again, yes this is the cool side of the viv not the hot side so the basking spot should get warmer than those temperatures ive given.

Its not, or id be rather impressed if it was, a burn as hes far to short to reach the ceramic bulb, which also has a guard around it, and theres nothing to climb on to reach, unless hes been getting tips from the neighbouring crested gecko lol and the underfloor heating i mentioned before doesn't get too hot either, i checked that when setting up before i got him, its warm but not even close to being burnable. So Im putting my money on either the bacteria or internal bugs as my best guess. I spot check his viv daily and he poops when we take him out 9 times out of 10, with food kept in a dish or hand fed, so unless hes hiding messes from me somewhere that are going rancid, i guess it could be something nasty thats come from the substrate or was underlying when i got him and has surfaced with the stress of being moved.

Douglas fir bark isnt toxic for them is it on a side note? It said it was reptile safe and i chose it because i was avoiding pine and anything that came as shavings/shredding as i wanted to avoid the dust/splinters ive seen warnings about. Although saying that if he was going to have a reaction to it, id expect to see more issues on his belly. His rear foot has swollen up again today as well, it had looked to be getting better so im at a loss over what thats all about.

My old hand sprayer died on me last month, wish id made the switch to the pump up ones sooner xD my reptiles aren't so keen though it seems, i think they think im hissing at them.
Im going to look into the misting systems after my next payday. I had one of the tiny cheaper ones in the past for my crestie, but would you believe i got what i paid for and it was rubbish!

Im going to start mixing the soil as i hadn't been doing that, i assumed that it would even itself out but clearly not as much as id hoped it would.

Ill look into the calcification thing as well, for future reference if nothing else. Hes had a lot of calci worms recently but ive not been dusting the rest of his meal when theyre on the menu. He loves wax moth grubs too but im going to have to stop him from having those until hes a big bigger and older as he seems to be struggling to digest them, one came out whole today and scared the crap out of me, though knowing my luck so far your probably about to tell me that thats a sign of a internal parasite.

Please can everyone keep fingers, toes, eyes, legs and arms crossed that theres going to be a lovely exotics vet who can see me this weekend and find a nice easy solution to all these health issues!

[splashy07]

Don't feel like you are failing, I'm 99 percent positive this is all a pre-existing condition as Halys are probably the most difficult to get right and way more sensitive to conditions even a minute percentage off. I kept them years back and think they're the most beautiful of the Gigas clan and can make awesome pets if conditions are right for them. Temps 95-105 warm side and 80-85 cool. Humidity 75+. Higher is better. Some sphagnum moss in your cool side hide (they should have one on each side) helps with shedding. Repti-bark or cypress mulch and coco-husk or a mix thereof is what I used to use as substrate with a huge water dish on the cool end and a smaller one by the lamp to increase humidity even more by evaporation. At the time I was using glass tanks so I'd cover everything but a hole cut for the lamp with foil. Hoping you can see your vet soon, and all the best of luck with your new pet. Thankfully I never had any issues with mine. I'm sure some current keepers of these awesome lizards will chime in here too.

[EGriff94]

Just adding a photo update from this evening, might not be the best pics but he really didn't want to stay still for long!

[kayla990]

Awww, I wonder what's going on with your Bluey... I noticed there are a few more bumps on the body from your last pictures (in front of the swollen leg, on picture #3 and #9 it's most noticeable, along with another bump on the left hand side of the body on #4). Really hope you can get them seen soon by a vet, it's pretty concerning.

Are they still eating daily? Are you managing to feed similar to the recommended diet sheet on the forum?

Again, yes this is the cool side of the viv not the hot side so the basking spot should get warmer than those temperatures I've given.

If possible it's more ideal to allow a gradient through out the day. 35C (without an option to cool down) seems a little much for such a young Bluey (I know it's staying in the warm area, but always better to allow them to regulate themselves).

Douglas fir bark isnt toxic for them is it on a side note?

I didn't know about this until now, but some people are claiming it's basically another term for 'pine shavings/bark'. Some claim it can be safe depending on how it's processed. But I'm not sure on the statement, as I'd doubt that companies such as Zoo Med would make substrate from fir bark if it wasn't safe. So it may be better to look into this and see your thoughts on this. If it's easy to remove, I'd take it out. But also believe you have it mixed in, so not sure what to suggest (do you recall if there were any bumps on the body before you got your Bluey?).

wish id made the switch to the pump up ones sooner xD my reptiles aren't so keen though it seems, i think they think im hissing at them.

I wondered if they thought it was hissing at them too! Although, our Gargoyle Gecko chases the spray, so can't be that bad (as he's usually a big scaredy cat he'll now drink from it directly). We're also going swapping through a lot of foggers - even two of the exact same product, one is perfect, the other is rubbish! So it's very hit or miss with such things...!

Fingers very crossed! Keep us updated, as have no clue what could be causing it all..

[EGriff94]

In pic 3 and 9 i think thats just where his boney bits end before his hips , definetly in pic 9, where hes resting on the lip of that ceramic bowl. Theres not too much weight on him yet so i guess that its more obvious now than it will be in a few months. Though im sure the vet will correct me if im wrong.

We have good days and bad days with the feeding which ive put down to ' a hungry skink isnt a fussy skink ' but hes still eating/interested and inquisitive when being handled

I believe the bark I'm using is from exoterra .. Are they trustworthy as a brand?

[splashy07]

If your bark is marketed for reptiles it should be fine. If purchased at a hardware store I'd question toxicity, although there are many organic type products out there suitable for reptiles. Exoterra carries a huge line of reptile products, owned by Hagen corp. which has been around for many years. Again, I'm sure your animal's condition was pre-existing, just worsened with the stress of re-homing. Think about how stressful it is for us to have to move, and multiply that by a hundred for a reptile who does not understand. Have you found an exotic vet?

[EGriff94]

yes it was marketed for reptiles, so fingers crossed it is indeed okay. I'm always a bit cautious over products seeming to be okay/shop keeps telling me it is, people are always trying to make money off of peoples lack of knowledge, calci-sand, heat rocks, a diet of only crickets or mealworms.. cant trust anything these days!

i'm currently asking my closer veterinary practices if they'd be willing to take a look just so i can get him seen sooner rather than later, but i have two options for a exotics vet, ones 25 miles away and the other is 21 miles. we've got to do it on public transport as well as we don't have a car and nobody can give us a lift. what a nightmare. as if he wasn't stressed enough! first things first i better get him registered and see if theres even a appointment available.


**update**
mightve just found a practice only 7 miles away thats part of a vet group that has surgeries which do cater to exotics. so in theory i can go to my 'local' one and if its something they cant do themselves, they can call up the other branch and ask for advice, send samples or worst case scenario, my little baby, off to the experts at another branch. Waiting for a reply now as i emailed them asking if Im correct in thinking all that stuff above. best piece of news ive (hopefully) in a long time!!

[kayla990]

The best of luck with the vets! That'd be great if you're able to use a closer vet fingers crossed you'll get some answers soon.

I believe the bark I'm using is from exoterra .. Are they trustworthy as a brand?

Yup Exoterra is considered a good brand. Actually, I must have had a derpy moment earlier - we have Exo Terra Forest Bark in our mixture! So yep, it seems fine Zoo Med is also a brand we tend to use.

[EGriff94]

Especially because the bus runs from literally our door step to 2 minutes walk from the vets. Its almost to good to be true at the moment, i think ill actually jump for joy if we can go there :'D

Lol i think we're all allowed a derpy moment every now and again

[EGriff94]

Well, its been a good and bad news kind of day. All of the vet groups that i mentioned in the last reply that had smaller local branches have said ' just go to the big ones' and wont agree to even look at my little guy to see if the trip is actually worth it, with one of the VN's at the hospital being very rude to my partner over the phone as well. But a smaller vet group with two branches closer to us have agreed to give him a look! success!

Hes now registered there and has a appointment booked for friday 23rd . They might not know what to do with him, and he may get referred elsewhere but atleast they're bothering to try, if its not some quick fix or fecal sample jobbie then atleast i can justify having to take a day off, pay for transport and stress him out with a long trip in icey conditions to get to a more advanced place.

[kayla990]

Aww, what a faff with the vets! It's a pain there are few specialists around. But at least you've managed to get an appointment. Also, something that may be useful could be to take a stool sample (I'm not sure if they need prior notice or if/how much they charge), but mainly from something you said earlier:

He loves wax moth grubs too but im going to have to stop him from having those until hes a big bigger and older as he seems to be struggling to digest them, one came out whole today and scared the crap out of me, though knowing my luck so far your probably about to tell me that thats a sign of a internal parasite.

Just to be safe.. as it does seem pretty unusual! Hope it'll go well on Friday, keep us updated

[EGriff94]

sunday was not a good day for our little guy...

i checked on him at midday, and was pleased as his tail bump looked to be going down a bit. awesome... or so i thought. when i checked on him at 3pm however, the tail thing had burst!! no sign of pus, or anything too grim, the wound was quite a fresh red flesh and still quite wet. he was still active and inquisitive but reguardless i made him a emergency appointment right there and then, no way was i going to leave that till morning even if sundays out of hours costs were going to be as much as the treatment itself no doubt. i called the exotics place and they mustve thought i was exaggerating or something as they told us to go to a local non specialist vet first as get it looked at there, save us the trip to the exotics place if it was a little pimple of a thing. luckily the ladies there after looking at Huff decided he definitely needed the experts advice, and sent us off to them, without even charging us out of hours consult fees - my heros!

one stressful car ride, a appointment, and a over night stay on sunday and now hes back home with me, and my banks £702 lighter £360 of that just for the OOH consult!!

Hes got a barrier cream for the tail and antibiotics for the next 2 weeks ( i have to administer literally 1 drop, it looks like absolutely nothing in the syringe!) theyve taken xrays, culture, sensitivity, cytology and fungal lab tests which i could be waiting for the next 3/4 days for results . i took a poo sample with me when i picked him up today but it was a bit too dry apparently, but ive got a poop pot ready to send off a fresh one whenever it comes. we think theres probably going to be worms in there somewhere as he is underweight despite eating, because of passing those wax moth larve whole/undigested and worms can lower the immunity which mightve been one of the causes of his issues. i must call the vet tomorrow to ask about the xray results as he wasnt in by the time i got there to pick Huff up and the hand over vet hadnt seen the xrays or been told anything he couldnt 100% confirm, but he said he mightve mentioned a few abnormalitys in the bone in his bad leg and his back somewhere that suggested a disease rather than something like mbd, though being a import, who knows what conditions he was in during his travels , so he mightve had mild mbd at somepoint and some disease mightve taken up in those weak spots. the vet has said to lower the humidity to around 70%, and just keep humidity high in a hide or two but that otherwise my set up and diet is spot on, but to keep an eye on his weight and that he is still eating. if the tail doesnt heal nicely it may be amputated in the end.

He isnt very happy with me right now as weve had to take out all his substrate and nice hides, and replace them with newspaper and cardboard boxes for easy cleaning and to keep dirt out of that tail , with a makeshift moist hide in a glass candle jar thing! Im trying to convince him its called minimalism but i dont think hes in the mood right now, and i can hardly blame him i suppose.

ill post pictures of the state of his tail tomorrow if i remember before i cream him up, it looks so sore the poor thing.

[EGriff94]

Heading back to the vets today , and depending on how he looks once hes woken up a bit, hes either having the tail amputated or we are calling it a day for him. The vet said he might not wake up from the surgery as it is, or the stress alone might do it. Or, he might make it through surgery only to get something awful back in the lab results. Hes just dragging that leg around now, no matter what direction hes heading in.

Its tearing my heart in two but im more inclined to just say goodnight today, hes clearly suffering and the vets not confident that he can pull through after all of this anyway, and its not fair to put him through all the stress and trauma of the op, meds, recovery etc. The xrays did show signs of mbd from his earlier life so theres always a chance that he could hurt another limb at some point and have to go through it all again and i cant justify it to myself.

Completely devestated.

[kayla990]

Noooo - So sorry for the situation I will be keeping my fingers crossed.. I can't imagine how devastating it is right now. Know that you've done as best as you can in this situation - it's not something you've caused! I really hope that the previous antibiotics and cream you were given will still help out..

[splashy07]

Very sorry for your troubles with your pet. Please refrain from using that pet shop ever again, and tell others the same. Unfortunately it has become quite common to have issues with imports. I wish you all the best, and again, I'm so sorry for all you and your pet are going through.

[EGriff94]

He was put to sleep this morning, his condition was so bad he didnt even live up to his name and Huff at me when i first open the vivarium doors. He just blinked with heavy lids and watched me. the tail tip was completely dead and the body end of the wound was going the same way, the head swelling had doubled and spread to both sides of the head, it along with the larger leg swelling had started to go pink in the same way the tail did just before it popped. he just laid limp in my palm, resting his chin on my thumb. the vet 100% agreed it was time to say goodbye and theres no chance he'd wake up from surgery and it was cruel to put him through it. he suspects septicemia spread aggressively throughout his body in his weakened state. we never got a fecal sample in the end but wouldnt be suprised if he was riddled with them which started the ball rolling, some early mbd weakenings in his bone from being imported, lower immunity from worms giving a disease or bacteria a open door into his body, a underweight body thats slowly loosing condition as the worms have more of his food than he does... it would make a lot of sense.

when the lab results come back the vet is going to write a full medical report on it so we can send a copy to the shop he came from asking a lot of questions, as the vet agrees its nothing weve done and was 99% sure it was pre existing.

we handed him in about 11:30am, along with all the cream, medication and syringes they had only just given me, and a unopened tub of those prepared snails you can get that he never got a chance to eat. Im devastated, hollow and totally lost right now. but at least i think it was teh right thing to do, only regret is that i didnt just go straight to a exotics vet rather than trying to find a local basic one who'd agree to just look at it even if i still get referred to the exotics place anyway. at least hes not in pain anymore.

[splashy07]

So very sorry for your loss. Don't beat yourself up, his condition most likely would have brought him to the same result regardless of doctoring. At least he is at peace now and I hope you give some holy hell to the pet shop that caused you all this grief.