New BTS from Craigslist - Health Concerns

[ninjaDance]

[Forum just ate my post, frustratingly, so this may be a little shorter than I originally intended.)

Posted the following on /r/reptiles and got some good advice, but would love some more input from those experienced with BTS!

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http://imgur.com/a/aUI6Z
So my wife and I have decided to acquire our first lizard! After about 2-3 months of researching and going over care for various reptiles, we decided on a blue-tongued skink. We didn't see any available at online breeders or anywhere locally, but we eventually found one on Craigslist.

Well it looked like it was in fairly rough shape when we picked it up and we were informed of a few things that made me uncomfortable (it hadn't been handled in a year, didn't know last time nails were clipped, fed solely on catfood, bananas, and dubia roaches), but we're bleeding hearts that don't know how to walk away, so here we are.

I only have one picture here, but I'm worried it (they never took it to a vet to figure out gender) has mouth rot from what I've seen and several toes look to either be missing or in... rough shape. Cleaning substrate and cage accessories tonight, it came with had tons of feces, carcasses, and shed skin all over. Looking to get it set up with a vet appointment first thing Monday morning, but... Experienced owners, how bad could this be? The skink appears to be toughing everything out so far, but I'm worried it's in pain. I'm a little concerned about how destructive it's going to be to my wallet, too. UVB light, new substrate, and a few other things I think the current setup is missing are in the mail. Picked up some mustard greens at the store on the way home, too, since it sounds like it's never had a vegetable.
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Since then, it's come out several times and is happy to watch us while we're in the room. It's pecked at its food (have ground up high-quality dry dog food and finely diced mustard greens mixed). I have a vet appointment tomorrow. Really worried about its toes, since I don't see any claws and they're all splayed to the side. Many seem to me missing pieces or gone entirely to me, I'm hoping it's just inexperience on my part not knowing what to expect (beyond internet pictures). As expected for a new reptile that's just been moved to a new home and not handled in a year, it has a hissy (huffy) fit any time I come near with the cage open. Not super looking forward to getting it into a carrier to reach the vet tomorrow, will be picking up a pair of rawhide gloves... as worried about it injuring itself as me.

Some of the comments on Reddit have indicated that it's Indonesian, so I've been working on raising the humidity (although it sure doesn't like being misted). I'm working on getting a new, slightly large glass tank set up for it as well, as pieces come in the mail this week. Still kind of undecided on substrate, although I've had a sterilized soil suggested a few times.

Anyhow, we love the little guy/gal, just worried about it! Please let me know if you have any thoughts on its species, health, or just any advice in general. Thanks!

[Janella]

Hi and first let me start out by saying thank you for giving this skink a chance. Sounds like it was in rough shape. The image you tried to send didn't come through. So unfortunately, I can't see how bad it looks. Also I can't tell the type either. Sounds like you are doing everything correctly by getting it to the vet. That is an absolute must. It needs a complete physical and fecal check. As for substrate, I like using jungle mix with Reptibark on top. Then you can provide a humid hide also. You never want to mist the skink directly. Most don't like it. If there is shedding issues you can do a soak. Sorry at the moment I can't type much more. However, if you have more questions we all are here to help. Welcome to the forum!

[tcopitho]

You have a classic Indonesian, tiliqua gigas gigas. From the photo I wouldn't say its in terrible shape but looks very dry. I cant quite tell in the photo but it looks like it has some bubbly or crusty scales around the mouth. Its possible that this is not mouth rot, but simply a symptom of extreme dryness that is seen quite often in indo blueys that are kept to dry. Long term high humidity will clean this up, Ive dealt with an extreme case of this in one of my own blueys, it takes a long time but it can be cleared healed up completely. Of course certainly do go see the vet, the image isnt super clear so getting a definite answer will make things easier.

Honestly most of the issues I see with this guy are the sort that will clear up with time and consistently high humidity. shoot for 60 to 80%. if you have a screen top enclosure, cover most of it with glass or plexi glass, or just something that will reduce the amount of humidity loss through the top of it when the heat lamp evaporates it. Adding a humidity hide (Tupperware with a hole cut in it, filled with moist sphagnum moss) will also do wonders for this fellow.

Do not be too concerned about the loss of toes, unless any of them look swollen or sore. Many BTS loose them when exposed to low humidity condition. The key will be to keep the ones he has in good condition with proper care. The loss of his toes will not hinder his future well being now that he is with you both who will look after him properly.

As for the huffiness... give him time, lots of time. Some take longer than others, first to settle into a new environment, and then to be handled, especially after so long being left alone. Indonesians are typically more huffy to begin with, but it doesnt mean they wont tame down. Even my tame girl huffs sometimes when she wants to be left alone. As for the gloves, has he ever lunged or threatened to bite? If you are using gloves, and there is biting going on, just be careful to enter the enclosure at a nice calm speed, from the side and not above the animal, and make sure he is aware of you. If he does lung or try to bite, try not to pull back, just wait for him to finish and continue picking him up or cleaning the tank or whatever you are doing. Many of them who are huffy do not actually ever bite.

I would suggest adding some good quality wet dogfood to your veggies and blending them together, otherwise I doubt you will get this fellow to so much as taste those veggies on their own. Dog food is a well respected staple for these guys, and is tried and true for many years by long time keepers. Its formulated for omnivorous so works perfectly for these guys, and even better if you add some nice fresh greens.

You should not have to go over the top with vet expenses, of course unless the vet finds something major. Fecal float is usually around 45$, and I'm not sure by you may be given something to cleanse the mouth with. For mine with that type of mouth issue I used a soft baby toothbrush and some warm water to cleans the area once or twice a week. Unfortunately there is no way for a vet to tell you the gender of your animal. Most people just pick a gender and stick to it until the skink proves otherwise by expelling sperm plugs, slugs, or having babes.

All the best with your new skink, hes a lucky fellow to have finally found a home who will properly care for and love him. There is a tone of info on this site, its an invaluable resource for people looking to learn all they can about blueys.

[ninjaDance]

Thanks for the replies, guys! Quick update after the vet visit for those interested, will try to get some more pictures posted before too long.

The vet was a little bit of a whiff in terms of information. He admitted he hadn't seen a skink in two years and it was pretty apparent that a lot of his information was from a quick googling. Some of the advise I got was very contrary to what I've heard elsewhere, including the need for a lot of airflow (he suggested putting screen on the side in addition to the top), while most other advice I've gotten has been to put a top on the tank to retain humidity better and to not worry about air flow. He definitely agreed on a higher humidity and confirmed it's an Indonesian. Also was of the opinion that the issues on the mouth was just humidity caused, so that and all the comments I've gotten on here and Reddit have put my mind at ease a lot on that (thanks!). Agreed that there were digits missing, but that it shouldn't affect its quality of life too much and current look is just due to shed... he did recommend not helping it remove that shed on the feet, which is a little different than what I've read (I was kind of half hoping he would do that while we were there, but eh). Also just straight up admitted he couldn't tell the sex, which I'd been half expecting after the replies here. Aw well, he's a guy for now. I suppose he can change his mind and tell us later if he wants to.

We've almost got his new home fully set up! Cleaned out the tank fully and spent yesterday after the vet/work expanding and straining six bricks of Eco Earth compressed coconut fiber, which was its own kind of fun, then mixed in a bunch of spaghnum moss. Screen top is supposed to get delivered today, then I'm just waiting on the digital hygrometer and UVB (although I keep hearing varying opinion on that) and once I'm at least reasonably happy with the temperature/humidity, I'm moving him in. We've been doing a pretty intense misting cycle in his current enclosure, but it's still dirty substrate and not retaining humidity super well. I've got an IR thermometer handy, so hopefully I can get temperature in a good spot soon. The bulb he came with is actually hitting about 120F on the basking rock as is, so I'm thinking moving a few inches further away from it is probably going to be a good thing. Considering swapping out the old bulbs for Zilla's mini halogen lamps soon, too... they look pretty efficient and the lower profile might work better with the hood I have on the tank.

Starting to ramble at this point, but I wanted to say thanks again for the helpful replies! Tetto'eko (calling him Eko) is already more active and inquisitive, and I was able to pick him up and hold him for a little bit without a lot of huffing (and certainly no biting).

[Janella]

Thanks for the update. Sounds like overall things aren't to bad. Good luck getting the new set up all together and ready. Keep giving us updates for time to time and pictures.

[aaronhouts]

Definitely sounds better than originally.
I'm going to suggest dropping the bulb idea for belly heat if possible. Heat tape with a good thermostat would be much better. Using a bulb would be working against yourself as the bulb will contribute to the dehydration problem.
Some more pics would be great, too.
Where in Arkansas are you from by the way?
I grew up in Memphis, TN and worked in West Memphis, AR for a little while.

[ninjaDance]

I'll take a look at the heating pads at the store after work today. Planning to drop by for the biweekly dog food pickup anyhow. Zilla pads work okay in your experience?

I'm actually originally from Forrest City, AR (I have family in West Memphis and got my dog from the shelter there!). Currently up on the other side near Fayetteville, but heading to Memphis this weekend for a day trip. Still head out there now and again!

[aaronhouts]

I don't think I have experience with the Zilla mats. If so, it has been a while.
What you're looking for is a hot spot of at least 90-preferably more like 95-96 and up to 100.
We use heat tape and leave the part of the enclosure where the heat source is bare and uncovered by substrate to allow the heat tape to work most effectively. The rest of the enclosure is covered with cypress mulch to keep the humidity up. We also place the water bowl directly on the hot side to promote evaporation.
What kind of enclosure is it?
an aquarium?

Have fun in West Memphis. I have fond memories of that place. I was a Spanish Instructor at what used to be called Mid-South Community College and is now called ASU Mid-South. I loved that job and loved the people but I REALLY love Florida.

[Hyrulemaster77]

Heyo! I forgot if this was mentioned earlier but if he's about to shed you can always put a dish or bowl in there for Eko to soak in. I've read that it helps with the sheds. Just another thought since you said it looked like he'd shed soon! Besides maybe a nice wet area would help with humidity in the short term?

Regardless I am relieved to hear he is doing better! Keep us updated!

[ninjaDance]

It's an aquarium, 55g. I think we have the heat about right with the bulbs, although you're right about keeping the humidity level being more of a pain than it could be... basking is a little over 95F, middle is upper 80s, cool end is 70-75. I actually have the water bowl right near the basking area as well, hopefully it's helping a bit. I haven't seen him soaking at all, but he splashed a bit back in his old cage.

Unfortunately, he's kind of holed himself up in the basking hide the past couple of days once the initial novelty wore off. It's about time to get some more food in there, so I might peek under this evening. Hoping he hasn't started the brumation period I've read about a few times... he really needs to finish this shed. He was mid-shed when we picked him up last Saturday and still has plenty to go. I know it's generally a good idea to leave them be for a week or two in a new home, but I don't want what's left of his feet to get infected, either.

[aaronhouts]

Yeah. You're working against yourself with the bulbs and using an aquarium. Keeping the humidity up is going to be hard. If you're worried about the toes, you can use aloe vera by mixing in aloe vera juice with water and having him stand in a shallow tub. You can also apply raw aloe vera to any part of the body, but it sounds like that would do more harm than good by stressing the animal.

[aaronhouts]

Here's what I mean:
Scout is sitting directly on top of where the heat tape touches the other side of the floor of her enclosure. The substrate is pretty much clear there so her belly is directly on the plastic. We try to keep this temperature around 95-96.
The water bowl is also directly on the heat source. Since heat makes water evaporate this helps keep the humidity up by putting water in the air.
The rest of the floor space is covered in the cypress mulch that you can see in the pic.

[aaronhouts]

The next part is that we use tubs.

We initially started by keeping them in 4' x 2' x 14" enclosures so they'd have plenty of room to roam. We heated them with heat tape and a radiant heat panel. We used a Mist King misting system to humidify them.

Cages.jpg

We found that they were not good at maintaining heat and humidity and that the animals hid almost all of the time.

Reluctantly, we moved them into tubs.
Front

IMG_0393.JPG

Side

IMG_0394.JPG

We found that it was much easier to maintain the heat and humidity. Note the condensation from the humidity.
Surprisingly, we also found that the skinks seem to feel more secure in the smaller spaces.

[Jane Simmons]

The Sunbeam 731-500 Heating Pad with Ultra Heat Technology is ranked the best in the market. I would absolutely recommend it.