Stressed and scared BTS

[Adam S]

Hi everyone. I'm having some trouble with my male BTS. I bought him almost a year ago and even back then was he kind of a b*tch Whenever i opened the terrarium, he tried to bite my hand while hissing at me. He haven't folded his tongue out (yet). He is not biting when he is out, but he is not calm. He has defiantly calmed down over the months, but instead of being *ticked at me, he just hides all day. When he is basking, he quickly hides again whenever someone enters the room. Desperate to make him more calm and less stressed i took the advice to just fill the whole cage with cork and hiding spots. I did that but i haven't helped at all. It actually did the opposite. He is more nervous than ever. So yesterday i heard about a method where you remove most of the hiding spots. In that way you softly "forces" the animal to learn that there isn't dangerous in the viv. What do you guys and girls think of that idea? Should i go for it?

!!!!!Extra bonus info!!!!! I have handled him a lot, and i can feed him from my hands, it isn't worse than that

Hope to hear your thought on this, and I would love to hear your suggestions on what to do.
Thanks, Adam.

[splashy07]

What type of BTS is he?

[Adam S]

Not sure, but possible irian jaya.

[wermy]

Yes, take out all his hides for a few weeks, and keep his substrate layer thin so he can't burrow. Make sure you have a proper cool end in his tank though, so he won't get overheated as he'll have no shelter from his heat lamp. Don't handle him much during this time, untamed reptiles pretty universally dislike being touched, and you want him to get over his fear that every time a human enters the room, he's about to get harassed. It seems antithetical, but the less handling I gave my skink in his first months here, the bolder and less nervous he got when I approach his cage. You want to change his perception of you from "scary monster who will grab me and maybe eat me" to "harmless giant who is safe to be around", and handling from being a scary and inevitable consequence of being seen by a human to just a very occasional, tolerable inconvenience. It is good to also hand feed him while he's in his tank, that way he will associate your incoming hand with food instead of thinking he must run or defend himself from an intruder.

[El Lobo]

By removing all his hides and not allowing him enough substrate in which to burrow is depriving him of his natural instinct to seek cover. This would most likely cause him to live with permanently elevated levels of cortisol, leading to significant health issues. I provide one hide and sufficient substrate depth to allow those in my care to burrow or hide as they instinctively prefer.

I have never subscribed to the "tough love" school of thought when dealing with animals.

[starscream3232]

I have to agree with el lobo. Taking away all the hides is not going to calm them down. It's only going to increase their stress. It's like stuffing a claustrophobic in a box hoping they'll get over it. Your skink hiding is his way of feeling secure. Taking that away isn't going to help. I have 6 skinks and each has a different personality. Most are pretty calm, I have one really shy one and one that just wants me dead. Some skinks never truly calm down. As long as he's eating and healthy that's all he really needs. Remember skinks tolerate handing, they don't love or require it.

[Adam S]

Hi. Thanks for your answers. I have tried taking most of his hides out for some days now. He is much more out in the open even though he has plenty of opportunities to hide. All I want I a skink that is secure enough to bask, eat and relax when I am I the room. I have to say that your answers (El LoboI h and starscream3232) haven't been much of a help. I understand what you are saying, but If you don't think tough love is a good idea, what should I do then? beacuse i'mT definitely not going to do nothing.Thanks again.

[NickBrahz]

I have a timid skink, for ages she would hide at just the sight of me, she has 2 hides and also the substrate is roughly 8-10cm deep so lot of burrowing she can do, now she is a lot less scared she basks everyday and doesn't care if im standing there watching or doing something with the tank for the most part, still hisses a bit when i go to pick up but doesn't try to run away and hide as much, when you get rid of the ability to hide and feel secure it would be like throwing you in the middle of the deserts while there was 100 meter tall giants around, you would constantly be scared and on your guard because at any moment these giant things might harm you,

[Adam S]

That was what I thought. I haven't removed all hides, and he got plenty of substrate, but I can already se that it's helping.

[NickBrahz]

Not something that will happen overnight, can take months but if you do it the long way they live less stressful, if something is stressed they can have health issues, this is my personal opinion/experience though.

[Susann]

The "tough love" is one method to try if all else has failed. The removing of hides and forcing skink to live in the open is one method; sometimes it works, a lot of times it doesn't. I'm very wary of recommending it; as El Lobo said, there is a huge risk you will increase your skink's stress tremendously, and reptiles with high stress (sometimes not outwardly noticeable at all) tend to not do well long term.
At the same time, if you are using this time of forced visibility to spend time on earning your skink's trust, and it seems to be working, it would be hard for me to tell you to put all hides back and go back to the way it was.

I've done it myself, and with my skink, it worked. He did not become a calm, cuddly skink, but he became somewhat easier to handle, and spent more time out in the open after. I did not remove all possibilities for him to hide, but I made it so he was never able to FULLY hide. I had him on paper towels at this time and gave him two, more open, hides; I also put his tank in a much more high traffic area. In the beginning he spent all his time under the partial hides, running away any time he was out and someone walked by. But after a few days, he started running off to hide a little less and stayed out when someone walked by a little more. After a while I gave him substrate again, then a "real" hide, then another, then some plants. He was still always extremely uneasy when being handled, but seemed a whole lot less stressed when being held than before.

Like I said, it is an option, one I don't recommend lightly, but it CAN work.

[Richard.C]

Taking all there hides and substrate away when they are nervous to begin with is akin to be dumped into shark infested water with no land or objects around to get out of the water

You mention it always hides yet you handle it,are u lifting hides and digging it out of substrate?

As thats rajing awau any security they may have had,whuch is pretty important for nervous animals,im not a huge fan of the tough love approach,as thats not allowing them to learn you are no threat,and actually can have a lonfer lasting affect of making your skink fear you

To many people are to concerned with there needs for a puppy dog skink and how they want it to behave they forget its actually about what tge animal wants

[Richard.C]

Aggressive and scared it isnt,defensive and scared is a more apt description

[El Lobo]

Adam S:

Your opening posts in this thread:

I would love to hear your suggestions on what to do.
Thanks, Adam.

I replied from my experience:

I provide one hide and sufficient substrate depth to allow those in my care to burrow or hide as they instinctively prefer.

You respond:

I haven't removed all hides, and he got plenty of substrate, but I can already se that it's helping.

Yet you feel it necessary to post the following:

I have to say that your answers (El LoboI h and starscream3232) haven't been much of a help.

I llive in an area where there are a lot of wild BTS and have observed their behaviour over many years. I was attempting to share some of that experience with you. Sorry it hasn't "been much of a help".

[Adam S]

I'm getting what i shouldn't do. What I want to know I was I should do. As I said, he got plenty of hides, lots of substrate and the opportunity to hide whenever he wants. All I did was to take SOME of his hides out. I would never take away all his opportunities to hide! And I can see it helping. He is more out, he started basking again and he comes to the glass to take a look once in a while. I don't know why you all are talking about "tough love", I haven't handled him since I took some of his hides out. And Richard C, I haven't pulled him out of his hides to handle him. Usually he come out himself trying to bite my fingers, and I can lift him up.

[NickBrahz]

Well thats because there isn't anything to do really then to let him get comfortable, time is the key here not actions, just hold him for 5-10 minutes a day and leave his enclosure intact and more then likely he will come around it might be weeks or months though.

[alichamp]

Hi Adam. Welcome to the forum

You say you've had him almost a year - was he a baby when you got him? Could you post a current pic so we can have a look? I don't know anything about the availability of BTS in Denmark - is he captive bred or a wild import?

I get that its frustrating when you are not getting what you want from your skink (or the forum) but we are here to try and help and there are many people with a huge amount of experience that have replied to your thread with some advice.

For me, I'm not really clear on what the behaviour is that you are wanting to change - and I wonder if that is why you are not getting the kind of advice that you are finding helpful. He doesn't bite, and you can hand feed him, but he's "not calm" when he's out - what do you mean? And, yes, some skinks do just hide all day, as they don't seek contact or attention, but he may very well be coming out to explore his tank when no one is around (and eat his food). This is pretty much just what some of them do. Is his enclosure set up in a separate room that is generally quiet or in an area in the house where there is lots of people traffic? Having him in the latter area may help him over time get used to the hustle and bustle around him - as long as it is not too chaotic.

Here is a link to the FAQ on how to tame a BTS. While I'm not sure that your BTS is not tame, perhaps something here will help: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20375

[splashy07]

A while back I had gotten a baby Halmahera for a friend. Adorable little baby scared to death. Wanted to have a sweet, tame baby for when she came to pick it up, so every time I went near the tank and he retreated I'd offer a treat. Seems they are very fond of insects at that age, and I breed my own dubias, so he got offered one every time I went in or near the cage. One week's time he was running out of his hide to see what I had every time I went into the room. Just a simple, no stress easy approach to gaining the trust of a reptile. This method has worked for me many times with many reptiles. Now is the sweetest, and rarely hides at all. I'm sure it's not the cure-all for every reptile, but thought it was worth mentioning.

[El Lobo]

An example of a wild Blotchy in our backyard curled up and burrowed down to hide in grass whilst sleeping.

DSCF1793R.jpg

[Marimo]

I second what splashy said. Every time you go into his space offer him a small bit of food, I used soft "training treats" for dogs to get my IJ tamer. If he constantly feels threatened and has no way to associate you with something positive he won't be tamed down easily.