Meet Spooky, and (possibly) his issue?

[Spooky]

Hello all! I am new to this forum, so I just wanted to introduce my boy, Spooky! He is an Irian Jaya BTS. (Pics Attached)


I have had him for 2 months, so he is still very young (I am not quite sure about how old he was when I got him, but he was a little longer than the size of my palm). He's steadily growing well and eating well, so I just wanted to throw this in as well alongside the introduction to maybe get some answers.

Ever since I first got him (He's from a breeder in Miami), he's been a really energetic and curious lil' dude. And he still is now, but about 3 weeks ago, I noticed that his neck (where his front legs connect and his neck meets his abdomen) has a kink in it. (He used to be completely flat when I first got him.) I'm really afraid that it could possibly be MBD ( SO I'm probably doing something wrong???) , but it made no sense to me because his setup has both a heat lamp (that doesn't give off UVB, and another lamp that does. I don't remember the wattage on it but it was specifically made for tropical reptiles, and I've always used this type and never had issues.) He's in a 20 gallon tank, and he's got his hides and basking rocks. I don't use a UTH because it's really hot here especially now in the spring/summer; and hot side of the tank is for sure 90-100 degrees. Cool side will be mid 70s-80s.

I also mist him to keep humidity up (and double mist when he's in shed.)

So... I have some pictures attached and I don't understand what could be causing it.
His diet consists of 50/40% meat and greens (mixed vice versa sometimes) and 10% fruit.

Meat:
-lean pork, chicken breast
-chicken hearts and gizzards

Leafy and Veggies:
-Bok Choy
-Watercress
-cabbage
-broccoli

Fruit:
-Apple
-Mango
-banana
-Cantaloupe
-Grapes

That is just a list of what I put together. (NOT EVERYTHING AT ONCE, just a list of different dishes I've made for him.)
He eats very well (every other day) and he basks (in real sunlight, heat lamp and UVB lamp.)

He walks fine, acts fine... I just don't want people to think I'm mistreating him because he has this kink in on his back. :c

[Scotts1au]

I hate to say but it does look like it could be MBD.

It may not be your fault, but first things first.

I would switch him to dog food and sprinkle with added Calcium and Vit D3 at each feeding for a few months, regardless of diagnosis. Cut out fruit altogether for the foreseeable future. Try to incorporate some daylight time as often as possible. Hopefully you should be able to get the situation stabilized.

Best thing is to establish a relationship with a local Vet, preferably with expertise in reptiles, however other than Ca supplements - there is probably not much that can be done to reverse any problems - other than to address the cause and prevent it getting worse and impacting on the blueys wellbeing.

A diet of 50% meat by weight or volume? Muscle meat tends to run at 10*P to Ca ratio which difficult to make up for simply by adding greens - just not made worse. It is far easier to manage P:Ca ratios by feeding pre-prepared animal foods. Many people have learned this the hard way.

Good luck and .

[wermy]

I second what Scott said, especially supplementing his diet with Calc + D3.

I've read that feeding pork and poultry can cause MBD because they have very low calcium to phosphorous ratios. Beef is recommended instead. Also lean muscle meat alone is not nutritionally complete. Look for dog or cat food with "meat by-products" high on the list, because these by-products contain other organs and bone that complete a wild animal's nutritional needs. Dog/cat food usually has controlled vitamin and mineral levels so you'll know your bluey is getting a balanced diet.

[Dakota]

I've read that feeding pork and poultry can cause MBD because they have very low calcium to phosphorous ratios. Beef is recommended instead. Also lean muscle meat alone is not nutritionally complete. Look for dog or cat food with "meat by-products" high on the list, because these by-products contain other organs and bone that complete a wild animal's nutritional needs. Dog/cat food usually has controlled vitamin and mineral levels so you'll know your bluey is getting a balanced diet.

Spot on!

[Dood]

If you don't like the idea of canned dog food you can also feed commercial brands of raw dog food which must meet the same nutritional requirements of canned and kibble and will have the correct vitamin and mineral content for dogs. Not all brands have vegetables added do you may need to add these to your skinks diet

[Spooky]

I second what Scott said, especially supplementing his diet with Calc + D3.

I've read that feeding pork and poultry can cause MBD because they have very low calcium to phosphorous ratios. Beef is recommended instead. Also lean muscle meat alone is not nutritionally complete. Look for dog or cat food with "meat by-products" high on the list, because these by-products contain other organs and bone that complete a wild animal's nutritional needs. Dog/cat food usually has controlled vitamin and mineral levels so you'll know your bluey is getting a balanced diet.

WOW seriously?!

I was clearly misled then.... I'll switch him to it ASAP today. Jeez, I really appreciate everyone's advice. I'll start with dog food first and then maybe work back into regular with beef instead this time just to see.

[Spooky]

If you don't like the idea of canned dog food you can also feed commercial brands of raw dog food which must meet the same nutritional requirements of canned and kibble and will have the correct vitamin and mineral content for dogs. Not all brands have vegetables added do you may need to add these to your skinks diet

I'll definitely keep a look out. I feel more confident about it now. XD

[tcopitho]

Since you've already gotten so much good info thus far, I'll just comment that Spooky's a real looker, very nice skink.

[Spooky]

Since you've already gotten so much good info thus far, I'll just comment that Spooky's a real looker, very nice skink.

Yeah! I'm so happy that this forum really stepped up. If I could give everyone sugary stuff I would.

And thanks so much! I think he's very handsome.

[Spooky]

I hate to say but it does look like it could be MBD.

It may not be your fault, but first things first.

I would switch him to dog food and sprinkle with added Calcium and Vit D3 at each feeding for a few months, regardless of diagnosis. Cut out fruit altogether for the foreseeable future. Try to incorporate some daylight time as often as possible. Hopefully you should be able to get the situation stabilized.

Best thing is to establish a relationship with a local Vet, preferably with expertise in reptiles, however other than Ca supplements - there is probably not much that can be done to reverse any problems - other than to address the cause and prevent it getting worse and impacting on the blueys wellbeing.

A diet of 50% meat by weight or volume? Muscle meat tends to run at 10*P to Ca ratio which difficult to make up for simply by adding greens - just not made worse. It is far easier to manage P:Ca ratios by feeding pre-prepared animal foods. Many people have learned this the hard way.

Good luck and .

I forgot to thank you, Scott.
Alot of the information everyone else has given me alongside yours is really helping me out. I've already switched him to premium dog food for now + greens and Ca supplements so I will keep updated here on his progress. Wish us luck!!!

[Spooky]

Hello everyone!!! I just wanted to leave a message here on Spooky's one month update. As most of the people who have assisted me know, he has mild MBD, but I caught it at an early age and I have been putting him on a more vitamin balanced diet. (I was feeding him regular mix of meat, veggies and fruits) and seeing how some of the users on here pinpointed most of the issues that may have caused his sudden MBD, I had resolutions given as well to start him back on track and getting him back to optimal health.

Right now he feeds off of Blue Buffalo dog food (with lots of veggies and the protein he needs, as well as added calcium supplement. Phosphorus to calcium levels have been way better and even though MBD is hard to treat, I am finally starting to see the tiniest changes with him. A little step is all I need to know that he's going through with this.

I really want to thank everyone who has assisted me in such quick manner!!!

[DianaBlueTongue]

Are you sure its MBD? I have a juvie caramel northern with a very similar upper back dip that was the result of his cage wall climbing non stop when very small. You can kinda see it here, its much less pronounced but you can see its in the same spot and very similar in shape?

[DianaBlueTongue]

Its just, he seems so young to already be suffering from MBD. I'm not a vet and far less experienced then a lot of the folks above, just thought I'd add my two cents since I have a young bluey with a really similar condition. From my past experiences with MBD it takes a good long while of malnutrition and vitamin deficiencies to start showing outwards signs like kinks and happen mostly in adult reptiles. Like, the tail of a bluey in the very early stages will look straight but an xray will expose a tail shaped like a squiggle.

The original diet above, while maybe over the long term mighta been missing some things, didn't seem lacking in anything enough to cause a young lizard to come down with MBD over only a couple months.
I'm learning too so please correct me anyone if anything I just said is off or not right, constructive criticism is a wonderful learning tool. I'm curious now too since I have a young bluey whose always had a good balanced diet with the same condition that I assumed was a result of climbing the sides of his tub early on.

[Spooky]

Its just, he seems so young to already be suffering from MBD. I'm not a vet and far less experienced then a lot of the folks above, just thought I'd add my two cents since I have a young bluey with a really similar condition. From my past experiences with MBD it takes a good long while of malnutrition and vitamin deficiencies to start showing outwards signs like kinks and happen mostly in adult reptiles. Like, the tail of a bluey in the very early stages will look straight but an xray will expose a tail shaped like a squiggle.

The original diet above, while maybe over the long term mighta been missing some things, didn't seem lacking in anything enough to cause a young lizard to come down with MBD over only a couple months.
I'm learning too so please correct me anyone if anything I just said is off or not right, constructive criticism is a wonderful learning tool. I'm curious now too since I have a young bluey whose always had a good balanced diet with the same condition that I assumed was a result of climbing the sides of his tub early on.

Oh no yeah, trust me, I really wouldn't have thought that he would develop it this young. He started having it about a month into owning him, which was odd for me because I tried to maintain the perfect diet, he had his UVA and UVB lamps, and the temperature for his cool spots and hot spots were all the right temperatures. He wasn't ever suffering and he always acted normal and I thought it was really odd how he didn't have issues walking or have a hard time eating or anything.

Of course until I was told that pork and chicken (which was the meat I was feeding him) lacked most of the protein that red meat has, i.e beef. I switched him to dog food because the vitamin levels were easily distributed and I would know that he was getting a better meal, per say to what I would personally make in a chopper machine.

Ever since then his appetite has upped and he has more energy than he used to have.

I'm aware that the lump might not ever go away but I see now that it's not as bad as it was in the beginning. Even if by slightly!

[Spooky]

Are you sure its MBD? I have a juvie caramel northern with a very similar upper back dip that was the result of his cage wall climbing non stop when very small. You can kinda see it here, its much less pronounced but you can see its in the same spot and very similar in shape?

Yeah! Spooky has never been a wall climber.

[DianaBlueTongue]

Yeah, my little guy with the same back hump has gotten much better as he's been growing. When I first got him it was very noticeable but now you can almost not see it

[Spooky]

Yeah, my little guy with the same back hump has gotten much better as he's been growing. When I first got him it was very noticeable but now you can almost not see it

Ohh yeah see, now that's the difference. When I first got Spooky, he was completely normal. Which is why many has diagnosed it as MBD because it developed after about a month.