Newbie questions about maybe getting a BTS

[Saber]

Hi! I am new to the forums and to herps! I have never had any herps before, but every time I see people with cool snakes and lizards I feel jealous! Ever since I was little I have thought they were so interesting. Now that I am an adult and have my own income and stuff I was looking into possibly getting one of my own.

Honestly I was looking into tegus at first, but it sounds like they are a bad choice for a first-time lizard owner because of their size. I like how tegus are smart, active, curious and enjoy human attention (after some taming). I looked around to see if there were any smaller species that had that kind of personality, and BTSes came up. BTSes don't seem to be as popular as say geckos or bearded dragons, but the people that have them seem to think they are really great.

So here are my questions:

1) First of all, do BTSes sound like a good fit for me? Like I said, I am interested in a lizard that is active, smart, curious and enjoys being handled and getting attention to at least some extent. I would also like one that is good for someone who has never had herps before. I have heard people say similar things about beardies too but it seems like most people that have had both think BTSes are more interesting. BTSes certainly look nicer to touch because they aren't so spiky!

2) What is the best way to get one? I'm in the Portland, OR area. I went to a reptile store in the area called House of Reptiles just to check things out and because I read that it was a reputable place with healthy animals (I know some pet stores are bad news). They said they have a BTS breeder they work with and that they'd let me know when babies come in. So that might work? It looks like there are reptile expos in town every few months, do those usually have BTSes? And there is always mail order too. I don't know what way is best though, especially since I'm a newbie and probably wouldn't be very good at spotting a bad breeder vs a good one.

3) Is it important that I get a baby? I would be fine getting an adult if it was tame. Do they only attach themselves to one person? Also do BTSes ever show up in rescues? I looked around and didn't really see any. I would love to adopt one that needs a new home but I don't know how often that happens.

4) I have two cats. They are good boys but very curious. Is it possible to make the enclosure safe from cats? Not just them trying to get in, but also knocking lamps over and stuff like that. I know those lamps are hot so I really don't want them falling over!

5) What is the best route for getting an enclosure? I am not very handy so I am wondering if I should just buy a pre-built one. How much would a good one that is the right size cost? What is the best style to use?

6) Is having reptiles a big problem if you rent? I have been looking around and it sounds like most landlords don't care because the lizard just stays in its enclosure all the time. But I know some places have "no reptile" policies for some reason.

OK that is probably enough questions for now, haha. Thank you for your help!

[splashy07]

Hi there, and welcome! Hope I can answer at least a few of your questions! First I'll say that the BTS is the world's best reptile pet. They are extremely forgiving of new owners mistakes, almost always dog tame, and will give you years of enjoyment. I've been keeping reptiles since the 60's when absolutely nothing was known about them until now, with the vast amount of hobbyists, breeders, the internet.....it is absolutely amazing how far this hobby has come. I've kept about every pet lizard and snake offered that captured my interest at any given time, and have decided, bar none, that the BTS is the absolute best reptile pet. Due to space constraints I only keep four at the present time, a pair of Halmaheras, a Merauke and a Northern. Being that you are new to the BTS world, I'd suggest you get a baby from a well known breeder, best would be on this forum. You will need to cat proof your enclosure, possibly even keep your BTS in a room that they cannot get to. Don't want to get into the horror stories. The absolute minimum enclosure would be a 40 breeder, and of course larger is better. There are some cheap finds on your local Craigslist, but be sure it is disinfected completely. Problem with not buying new is you never know what the previous inhabitants may have had. (Mite eggs can go dormant!)
Always check with your landlord before acquiring a new pet, will surely prevent heartbreak later on if it is not appreciated.
I met my landlady at a reptile club meeting, so there are no issues there! As far as what type, that would be personal choice, I prefer the Indonesian species but the Northern by far is your best bet for a pet, and a baby Northern will be captive bred without a doubt. Good luck, and I'm sure others will have suggestions for you too!

[Saber]

Thank you so much for the answers! I am asking my landlady right now. I think they will be fine with it but we will see. Better safe than sorry.

I was thinking of getting a cheap 40 gallon breeder tank off of Craigslist for now and then getting something nicer later when I have had the lizard awhile and know better what I want. Does that sound like a good plan? I would look up how to disinfect it properly for sure because who knows what CL people do with them, haha.

Then I'd have to figure out how to catproof it which might be hard. Any ideas on that? I don't know if any of you have kitties too. I'm afraid not just of them getting in or knocking over the heat lamp but also of them jumping on it. They like to jump on top of everything. I am not sure how I would keep them off. Those screen lids don't look that strong!

How do I use the forums to find a lizard? Just post in the classifieds? Someone mentioned a Facebook group too but I haven't gone looking for it yet. I AM a little afraid to buy from that reptile store if only because they wanted $300 for the BTS they had there. It was just a plain old Northern. It was young I think but not a baby. Isn't that a lot? Not that that would be too much money for me, I just don't want to be ripped off or anything.

Also what varieties are best for beginners? Irian Jaya and Northern seem to be the most common. I think the Indonesians and Halmahera ones are pretty because of the dark coloring and striping but it seems like they might be hard to find and not as friendly? I like the Northerns with darker colors too but I don't know how hard they are to find, people seem to like the lighter colors better.

Again thanks so much! Sorry, I have a lot of questions since this is all new to me.

[MechHAN]

Since BTS are not smelly nor aggressive I think it wont be too hard to convince your landlady.
BTS are really not as smart as tegus,but they are much easier to keep,and looks kind of like tegus(one guy I met in pet store even mistaken mine as a baby tegu at first).blue tongues usually more "lazy" than beardies,but still fun,and also,more tolerate.BTW,the spikes of beardies are really not that sharp.

About catproof...you may want a tank whth sealed top,and have a lock on it.it's not hard to find a tank with strong top.
I'm afried I cant give you help about price and breeders on forums that can help you since I'm in the other side of earth,hope others will come and help you.
But I can tell you that although Indonesians are not as friendly as others,they are still far from aggressive,usually.It's funny that the place I live the Indonesians are more common can cheap,and yet I like lighter colors more...the world is not fair...

[Saber]

Thank you! I think in the end personality will matter the most so I will try to get a Northern, it sounds like they are the nicest. All skinks are pretty anyway!

Oh I just remembered, another question I had . . . So like I said I have two cats. I already feed them Wellness* chicken wet food. Would it be OK to use that as a primary protein source for the skink? It seems like people are divided on whether dog or cat food are good everyday protein sources. I ask because it'd be very convenient for me to do that of course.

*If you don't remember, Wellness is one of the high quality brands that uses actual chicken, has low ash, etc.

[Susann]

1) First of all, do BTSes sound like a good fit for me?

BTS's sound like a good fit for you. They may not be as intelligent as some reptiles, but I venture that they still make the top part of the list
Where you haven't owned reptiles before, it is very important that you not think of them as companion animals akin to dogs or cats; many skinks tolerate and enjoy handling and interaction better than most reptiles, many are known for being curious, and many even choose to hang out with you while you watch TV, but many --if not most-- will choose to find a place to hide, away from you, if given the opportunity. Many --if not most-- will huff when you reach for them in their tank, nothing to be afraid of, most of us are used to it and ignore it. Contrary to popular opinion, most do not enjoy being touched, stroked, or petted the way we are used to with our furry pets; many new owners come here frustrated because they think their skinks hate them, or are aggressive, because of the sounds they make whenever the owner goes to pet them. You have to have realistic expectations. Many will be puppy dog tame, but none will be puppy dogs --nor will they behave like puppy dogs. If you want something that behaves like a puppy dog, get a puppy dog.

2) What is the best way to get one?

Through a reputable breeder who gives you their contact information and who WANTS you to be in touch with them if you have any questions or concerns and who welcomes updates. A breeder who can tell you the lineage of the animal they sold you and give you pictures of at least the parents if they sold you a baby they claim to have produced.
A reputable breeder is not the only way to get a quality animal, but it is the best way to ensure you get an honestly represented animal and to get full support after your purchase.
We have compiled a list of breeders, many are contributing members on this forum and many of them produce babies year after year:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19635
BTS give birth only once a year and the birthing season here in the US should start within the next few months and go through about August.

There are a few reputable breeders who are vendors at expos, but it is pretty rare. Most blue tongue skinks sold at expos are animals with unknown history, many of which are recent imports. Not always. But most of the time.

3) Is it important that I get a baby?

I don't think so. There are pros and cons but no guarantees in either way. Some pros: with a baby you are guaranteed to know exactly how the animal has been raised ...since you're the one doing it... so will know whether the animal has been mistreated, you can assure it receives good and proper nutrition from the get-go, you'll have pictures throughout all it's cute growing-up stages. Some cons: babies tend to be quick-moving and harder to handle, more fragile, some can be bitey, some are nervous and/or scared. With loving, gentle, patient handling, almost all babies calm down and eventually with time learn that you are not something to fear, you bring food, and they get to explore (and sometimes treats!) when you pick them up. But it CAN take time.

Do they only attach themselves to one person?

No. Because they don't attach themselves to ANY person. They are not that kind of pet. Do they know you? Yes, it is my belief that they learn to know you, by sight, sound, and/or smell, maybe even by past experiences with you, but I personally do not believe that they become attached in any way to people.

Also do BTSes ever show up in rescues? I would love to adopt one that needs a new home but I don't know how often that happens.

It does happen, but as skinks are still pretty rare as pets, very few end up in rescues. It is more common to find them in online classifieds; if you peruse the threads in our classifieds section here you'll see several have been listed/adopted within a not so distant past.

4) I have two cats. Is it possible to make the enclosure safe from cats? Not just them trying to get in, but also knocking lamps over and stuff like that.

It is not only possible but absolutely imperative you make sure it is IMPOSSIBLE for a cat to get into, or for the skink to escape, the tank/cage, and that no lamps or fixtures can be knocked down or tipped over! I would suggest you not get a screen top tank; you know the cats will most likely love to lay on the screen enjoying the warmth while watching for any movement your skink makes. I would go for a fully enclosed tank with front sliding doors that lock (locks can be purchased separately). If the fixtures are accessible from the outside you need to find a way to secure them.

5) What is the best route for getting an enclosure? I am not very handy so I am wondering if I should just buy a pre-built one. How much would a good one that is the right size cost? What is the best style to use?

Do some research online, figure out what features are available, which ones you want/like/need, and go from there. Used ones are sometimes available for free and from there the cost goes up to endless for custom built ones.

6) Is having reptiles a big problem if you rent?

Like has been mentioned, it can be a problem, which is something to consider if you are renting or if there's a possibility you will be renting anytime in the next 25 to 30 years, which can be the life-span of a well cared for captive BTS.

I already feed them Wellness* chicken wet food. Would it be OK to use that as a primary protein source for the skink?

If you know people are divided between cat and dog food you may have seen that the added Taurine in cat food is the reason many advocate against cat food, and is the reason for cat food being listed as "feed occasional" rather than "feed frequently" like dog food in our food chart. Since it is not known what the effect of Taurine is on reptiles it comes down to your own judgement.

[Saber]

My landlord finally got back to me and said a lizard was fine!

Where you haven't owned reptiles before, it is very important that you not think of them as companion animals akin to dogs or cats; many skinks tolerate and enjoy handling and interaction better than most reptiles, many are known for being curious, and many even choose to hang out with you while you watch TV, but many --if not most-- will choose to find a place to hide, away from you, if given the opportunity. Many --if not most-- will huff when you reach for them in their tank, nothing to be afraid of, most of us are used to it and ignore it. Contrary to popular opinion, most do not enjoy being touched, stroked, or petted the way we are used to with our furry pets; many new owners come here frustrated because they think their skinks hate them, or are aggressive, because of the sounds they make whenever the owner goes to pet them. You have to have realistic expectations. Many will be puppy dog tame, but none will be puppy dogs --nor will they behave like puppy dogs. If you want something that behaves like a puppy dog, get a puppy dog.

Yeah, they aren't social animals like dogs and cats so it makes sense that they aren't really affectionate. I thought they sounded neat because I had previously assumed the common wisdom that reptiles are all very cold and robotic and don't engage with anything that isn't food. Maybe that IS true for some of them, ha. So I was really excited to hear that many reptiles like BTSes are intelligent and curious.

No. Because they don't attach themselves to ANY person. They are not that kind of pet. Do they know you? Yes, it is my belief that they learn to know you, by sight, sound, and/or smell, maybe even by past experiences with you, but I personally do not believe that they become attached in any way to people.

Oops, I meant to say "are comfortable around" one person. If they have a hard time telling people apart then maybe that's not a worry!

It is not only possible but absolutely imperative you make sure it is IMPOSSIBLE for a cat to get into, or for the skink to escape, the tank/cage, and that no lamps or fixtures can be knocked down or tipped over! I would suggest you not get a screen top tank; you know the cats will most likely love to lay on the screen enjoying the warmth while watching for any movement your skink makes. I would go for a fully enclosed tank with front sliding doors that lock (locks can be purchased separately). If the fixtures are accessible from the outside you need to find a way to secure them.

Do some research online, figure out what features are available, which ones you want/like/need, and go from there. Used ones are sometimes available for free and from there the cost goes up to endless for custom built ones.

Yes I am very worried about this too! I KNOW they will try to sit on top of the cage, that is just how they are.

I have been scouring the internet looking for this type of cage, but it seems very hard to find. Firstly, it's hard to find a cage even big enough! Then it's even harder to find one that opens from the side and has a solid top but can still accommodate lights. Any suggestions? I am guessing that a lot of people build their own enclosures, but like I said I am not handy and would not want to put a defenseless creature in anything I had built myself!

If you know people are divided between cat and dog food you may have seen that the added Taurine in cat food is the reason many advocate against cat food, and is the reason for cat food being listed as "feed occasional" rather than "feed frequently" like dog food in our food chart. Since it is not known what the effect of Taurine is on reptiles it comes down to your own judgement.

OK just checking. I will just grab some small cans of dog food when I get my cat food then!

[Susann]

If you're shopping online, fully enclosed, front-opening tanks shouldn't be hard to find, ...they just tend to be very costly.

Here are some pictures:

011T1.jpg

011T3.jpg

011T.jpg

011T2.jpg

And

I would love to adopt one that needs a new home

If they're willing to ship, here's one option to maybe check out: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27809

[Saber]

Thank you! Yes as I've caught more brand names I've had an easier time finding them. I have also found a couple on Craigslist that I think would work. One of them is really cheap but only 15" tall. Is that going to be enough room for lights and stuff? I think I will have to install light fixtures myself too which I've never done, ack. But it's REALLY cheap and in nice shape so I am going to give it a try.

Thanks for pointing out that ad! I wasn't sure about it though. Do you think shipping would be OK in the winter? I'm in Oregon and it's been in the mid-50's during the day here. I don't know if that is dangerously cold for them or not.

[Susann]

Mid 50's is perfectly fine, you just have to make sure the person shipping knows to use the right shipping materials with correct heat pad etc. Happy to help out if that becomes an issue; there are lots of videos on youtube too with instruction.

[Saber]

Oh good! That makes things a bit easier. A bit . . . seems like it's still going to be tough to find one this time of year.

[Saber]

Look what I got last night!



It has locking sliding glass doors but they are in another room ATM while I finish cleaning this thing out. It held a classroom boa apparently, but it's been empty for a long time. Very nice family but not herp folks. They REALLY wanted to get rid of it so it was only $35! According to them it's melamine. It really needs cleaning (for $35 of course it does LOL), TWO spiders came out to check me out while I was driving home! It has a smell too inside. I don't know what boas smell like but it reminds me of cat urine but not quite as bad, more flowery. I wiped it out with hand soap already, going to get some reptile-safe sanitizer tonight and get it really clean and I'm sure the smell will be gone then.

I don't really have a question yet I just wanted to show it off.

[Susann]

Amazing find!

[Saber]

Thanks! Yes very lucky timing on my part. I saw the ad only a few hours after it was posted. It's a little neglected but with a little more work I think it will work great. If it starts aging badly I'm going to spring for a nice plastic cage though.

Did I mention that the elevator was broken when I got home? And I live on the 7th floor?? Fortunately as I was struggling to figure out how I was going to get it up the stairs by myself I ran into a very nice young man who was happy to help me carry it. He asked what it was for and I had a chance to tell him all about blueies.

The cats sat inside it the first chance they got. They are going to be disappointed that I didn't buy it for them.

[Saber]

Hi again! So I've got the enclosure set up now with a halogen basking light, a big basking rock and aspen shavings. I've been trying different settings on the dimmer to find good temps. Right now I am getting about 105 F on the very hottest spot on the rock with the rest of it looking to be in the 80s and 90s. The cold end is about 70, but the temps don't seem to go up until you get right around the light. Is that how it should work? Is the middle area too cold, it's maybe like 72 according to the temp gun?

[NickBrahz]

No those temperatures are fine, basking spots can be from between 95-100 some say up to 110 but thats a debate so 105 is fine, and the cold end usually from 70-80 so your temperatures are right, he has a nice gradient from hot to cold and if he finds the middle area to cold then he will just go into the hotter area and vice versa, it's all about providing them the option of the ranges of temperatures which you have so s/he will be fine.

[Saber]

Thanks I feel better now. I might turn it up or down depending on what he seems to like but it's on a dimmer so that's easy to do.

[Saber]

So I tried nighttime temperatures last night . . . is 65 too low? My room is a bit cold apparently. If it IS too cold, what would be a good way to raise it? The cage is melamine-covered chipboard, can you use under tank heaters with those?

Another random question . . . What kind of box do you use for moist hides? I was thinking of getting a tupperware type box and cutting a hole in it, but most of them are at least partly transparent. Would that bother him, or would he still feel OK?

[NickBrahz]

65 is fine, if it drops under 60 then you should look into getting a night heat globe to boost up the temperatures but only if it gets colder, thankfully i have never had to worry about night time temperatures, usually 77-86 during the dead of night, maybe drops to 60-70 inside in the winter.

[MechHAN]

I think some duck tape with color will solve the transparent probem