Homosexuality in Tiliqua During Late Breeding Season

[Dakota]

Was going through my old camera files, and stumbled upon these photos. It was late last season (I think January or December), and the females had nothing to do with the boys. The boys would "test" them, but the females would lash out at them. So, they quickly found a solution - they were taking rounds trying to breed each other!

Hunter having a go at Ema.

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Ema fixing to have a go at Hunter.

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Xaunder threatening to bite if he tried to do anything, he then backed away.

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It's funny because just a month or two before this, they were ready to kill each other!

I don't guess this is an ultra rare event, but goes to show you even if they breed, doesn't mean they are 1.1. And with them only doing this late in the season, it could be why people were so unsuccessful with Meraukes, back when people practiced breeding them in Spring.

[Richard.C]

Gayest thread ever,lol

My group kept blotchies often grab at other males early in breeding season,usually there so pepped up with testosterone they go after anything that moves,usually at that time its subordinate males and even juvies,ive never seen them actually try aligning cloacas,let alone try and lift the other tail

Though this season i had a small male do this to the big dominant male blotchie,went the whole hog,tail base scratching,eventually raising his tail,aligning cloacas and doing the horizontal mumbo,pene out and ewwies expelled,not sure he got it in though but on numerous occaisions on one day he had a few good trys,even with big fella turning around and chomping his head

[Richard.C]

Dakota i reckon this would happen alot and get unnoticed, or because of not being group kept it often gets missed,a few of mymles look shoulder scuffed just like females every season with the blotcheds and even the easterns,though mostly i see male niggles as apposed to trying to mate them there just working out whos boss which is usually hed biting

Not bluetongue related but ive seen some odd behaviour like this with a few of my monitors,two male ridge tails in with a female both used to try mating each other,usually before female was ready for first mating of the season

Monitors are pretty darned odd though,my old gillens pr when young used to bipedal wrestle like 2 males when younger,she eventually laid eggs

And this past 12 months ive had a female mertons try and do its darndest to fool me into thinking its a male as its been constantly climbing all over the bigger male,and trying to get him to raise his tail and copulate him,it even on a few occaisions everted s tiny appendage,she just laid a clutch of eggs finally telling me im nuts for second guessing her as a male,lol

This is why behaviour sexing isnt as straight forward as some people think,whilst it is quite useful,some still do there best to keep u guessing,lol

[Dakota]

Yeah, that's why I don't abide by behavioral sexing. Although it was the method that gave me the idea of the sex of my Meraukes back when I didn't know, and turned out to be right. But there are always kickers to any method of sexing.. like trying to sex a T. gigas that is overweight using the bulge method, it just won't happen. I've given up trying to sex fat skinks.

[Richard.C]

Thats why it pays to look at as many variables as possable,most will give it away,theres always a handfull that keep u second guessing,another thing with behaviour sexing to often over looked is if u group house and have a few males together,some males show zero interest in mating,act just like females in response to a mating males advances,one of my blotches had me fooled for quite a few years,got scuffed shoulders every season,never got enlarged hemipenal buldges ect ect,i pulled it from the outside group and put it in with my young indoor ones i still have to make a cage ourside for,cooled them and bang,hemipenal buldging and bang he finally went after females,total turn around in behaviour,only scuffing he got was on the head from another male that retaliated ,thankfully they gave up after a run in or two and a cage full of females to keep them occupied

Lots of variables come into play sometimes,usually though you do get a good picture of whats going on,but yeah sometimes its not so clear cut,all part of the fun of keeping them,u never really stop learning