Diet Discussion - interested in constructive feedback

[hurricanejen]

Hey all! I wanted to post this in advanced topics, but it doesn't look like I can anymore...

Anyway, as some of you may remember, I worked at LLL - I quit about a month ago to pursue other opportunities, and while I have a bit of extra time between consulting jobs (btw, if you need social media marketing help, I'm your gal ), I decided to go forward with an idea I've been kicking around for about a year now.

For several years, I've been using Mazuri insectivore diet for at least half of my skink's food, offering it alone if I haven't been able to get to the store recently. At LLL, I used it as the staple food for the large colony that was acquired and I maintained there - think triple digits of skinks. However, I never really used it alone, it was never offered without something else at least once a week. I wanted to make it available for others, but you can't resell mazuri as mazuri if you're re-packaging it, they no longer have control over the quality, so it can't be marketed or labeled as mazuri.

So, I looked at what I usually mixed in or fed with it, and then considered what I could include as a pre-packaged, dry diet. This led to the addition of red colored plant material, such as goji berries and hibiscus flowers, as well as alfalfa leaves - in moderate amounts, mimicking the incidental consumption of plant material when skinks consume insects in the wild. The insectivore diet on its own is high protein, high fiber, low fat, and while boring, can be fed to the skinks alone. I know from switching all the breeding center skinks over, though, that not all skinks will take to it with gusto.

So, the addition of fruits, as well as a mix of dried insects including crickets, superworms, silkworms, and mealworms. I've also included some powdered carrot (the entire plant, including the tops) as a source of carotenoid - I noticed when my skinks had repashy superpig included in their diet, there was an increase in pinkish tones and hues. The carrot on its own is a nice source of additional nutrients, but my hope is that some keepers may notice a positive effective on color for their skinks as well.

I've included a link to the pages I made as I prepare the ingredients to ship out a few folks who kindly volunteered to get free samples in exchange for reviewing the diet, and I would love some discussion from the knowledgeable folks here as to what they'd look for in a packaged diet. My goal here was something easy for beginners to use and measure out (the 8 oz and up sizes will come with 2 oz measuring cups), and easy for other keepers who may not have easy access to the mixed foods I'm including, like the goji berries, hibiscus, etc. Basically, an easy way to add variety without having to go out and buy 10 things every week for your one or two pets at home.

Thanks for any (constructive!) feedback you guys can give me.
-Jen

http://tyrannosaurusmarketing.com/dino-diet-lizards/

[SmaugTheBluey]

Sounds like an amazing idea! I think with the upcoming winter in the Midwest this could be really helpful to some of us who can't leave the house because of the weather, ill be sure to buy some soon!

[CWyatt]

I've been adding Bearded Dragon pellets to my mix as a way of ensuring I'm not missing something. I would welcome a prepared diet for BTS.

[DianaBlueTongue]

Definitely following your progress with this. I really think it's a brilliant idea!

I think two of the biggest concerns with the average keeper (bts collections consisting of 3 or less animals) would be how cost effective this diet would be as well as how easily a bts would switch from a more traditional wet dog food diet. How readily have you noticed the experiment bts switch over? Do they seem to take it right off the bat or does it take some coaxing or weaning into the diet like by mixing a 50/50 ratio and then slowly wean out the old diet? Is the diet ment to completely replace a wet dog food based diet, can it, or is it more of a way to add variety to an existing diet?

[hurricanejen]

Definitely following your progress with this. I really think it's a brilliant idea!

I think two of the biggest concerns with the average keeper (bts collections consisting of 3 or less animals) would be how cost effective this diet would be as well as how easily a bts would switch from a more traditional wet dog food diet. How readily have you noticed the experiment bts switch over? Do they seem to take it right off the bat or does it take some coaxing or weaning into the diet like by mixing a 50/50 ratio and then slowly wean out the old diet? Is the diet ment to completely replace a wet dog food based diet, can it, or is it more of a way to add variety to an existing diet?

It is meant to replace dog food and have dog food or wet food be a once a week (at best) type of offering - you would (or could) use this primarily every other day, and once a week or so offer something else. That's the ideal method, actually, as this on its own does not offer enough calcium, and would need something else regardless to provide enough dietary calcium and D3.

My tests have all been with the kibble plain; the additives are, essentially, dried versions of what i'd offer as a moist addition to make the mix more appealing or more appetizing to the stubborn switcher-overs. The skinks that switch over easy, switch over easy - they'll eat anything. The tough love animals, the picky, selective critters, they usually take a bit of coaxing with some type of wet food before they eat the kibble regularly.

I used it when I worked at LLL, and after 6 months, all the skinks ate it - but I was "mean" enough, and experienced enough, to just let the more stubborn feeders skip a couple weeks of eating readily before they accepted plain kibble. With wet food, either dog or turkey, mixed in, at least at 50/50, they all ate it like it was candy. The northerns always ate it like candy, the most stubborn switches came from the "classic" indonesians. I suspect, very strongly, that that particular locale eats a much more insect based diet than the other types - they never got very big nor did they ever eat a non-moving meal with the same gusto as the larger subspecies.

But that's just speculation - at most I was working with 5 animals, that is not a very big sample size.

Thanks for the feedback guys, I have high hopes!! I wanted something that would be easy for keepers to get a routine going and add in what they want - obviously I know that variety works best, but I can't put a million dried things in, so I wanted to add in stuff that most folks can't afford to buy easily on their own, and mix it in so that they can add their own cost effective staples too. Who can add in guava or hibiscus flowers on a regular basis? I couldn't, but the skinks love it, so if I can split that into a hundred owners across the US, everyone wins, right?

That's the hope, anyway, and the mazuri itself is fantastic. Cheers everyone, and happy thanksgiving, too!

-Jen

[DianaBlueTongue]

One of my favorite parts about the dry kibble I noticed was how small the pieces were. The biggest obstacle I've come across with trying to feed my skinks any type of dry dog food was the size of the individual pieces. Even the small breed bits are a bit big for the bts to eat easily and I find myself spending a lot of extra time breaking them apart so the skinks will more readily accept it. When I watched that video you posted of a bts eating just the kibble it looked very easy for him to gobble up a mouthful.

If you do infact market this diet I'll absolutely become a faithful and regular customer, my collection has reached a point where being able to offer a dry staple food item (in addition to some other mix ins to fill in the vitamin/mineral gaps you mentioned) would definitely make my life much easier, not to mention a bit less stinky! lol

[Seadation]

Great idea! I have one question with those who have large numbers of skinks what will the cost comparison be from this compared to a traditional wet dog food or even dried cat food diet?

[hurricanejen]

It'd be more than a dog or cat food, but when you start buying it in bulk, the price starts going down - depending on the sheer size required, I could feasibly make a custom size for larger groups that would have its own pricing. Frankly, for the keepers in the dozens of animals or more, it becomes feasible to make your own batches of wet food mix (you have enough skinks to eat it all in a feeding or two) and they have the experience to mix up their own food. They also can make the decision on whether it's worth it to them and their feeding program to add in what the mix I make offers, and weigh if the time saved mixing food combined with the assorted unusual stuff makes it worth it for them not to make it themselves.

I am waiting on the rest of the ingredients to arrive, I'll be making up the first batches next week Thanks everyone!

[Haley]

As soon as it becomes available in Canada I would be very interested in trying it out. I will keep my eyes peeled as this would be great for in the winter when it is not as easy to leave the house!

[joan]

My skink actually does like the mazuri pellets. Eats them like candy! I'd definitely buy something like this to supplement my skink's diet.

Are goji berries actually healthy for them to eat regularly, even in low quantities? They've become one of those fad health superfoods, but they're also in the nightshade family (peppers, tomatoes, eggplants, potatoes). I grew up with goji berries, but only in herbal soups (very small handful of berries in one big pot of soup for the family). I consider it more of an herbal supplement, as opposed to something I eat regularly. I haven't looked into any studies on goji berries though. Maybe it really is a superfood. I'm only familiar with the traditional usage and it's kind of strange seeing it pop up in all kinds of snacks today (I hated those soups as a kid).

[hurricanejen]

I'll doublecheck the goji berries, they were really only in there to help add color along with the hibiscus flowers, they are not in the mix in super large quantities. I just updated the shopify page, it is now available for order - I'll be putting together the first packs tonight to ship out for folks.

As far as I can tell from my first searches, goji berries aren't really toxic, but in large quantities at first (like in a supplement/pill form), they can irritate the stomach, which is sort of a "duh"... you can do that to yourself with any fruit. Looks like some people also have allergic reactions, again, happens with other foods too. Pretty much like any other fruit, you give an animal too much and they get loose stools.

Unfortunately, it will only be available in the US - I checked and the plant components make it so it cannot be exported. Sorry!

Link to shop: http://www.Tyrannosaurusmarketing.org (it's the .org url of my marketing business, it's what I had to use - promise, it's not click bait for marketing )