Weird Shingleback happenings...

[scaredofbees]

A couple hours ago, I noticed my female aspera had shed. She normally only sheds once a year, usually around the end of May. I reached into her enclosure and removed the shed. I then lifted her up, still inside of her enclosure to examine her legs and feet to make sure the old skin had completely sloughed off. Underneath her, in the substrate, was a half-formed, kind of gooshy looking stillborn baby. I set her back down and reached for the remains of the offspring, at which point she quickly lunged and bit me. I've been lightly nipped before while hand feeding, but let me tell you, this was like getting my hand caught in a door. I pulled back a little and was able to pry her off without injuring her (she was loosening her grip at this point). I set her back down into the enclosure and she made her way over to the mushed up looking offspring and quickly ate it. And I mean quick. I wish I would have set her down outside her enclosure in order to get a better look at it, but all of this happened quite fast and I was in no way prepared to have been bitten like that.

Now here's the thing... the male aspera was removed from the enclosure in 2013 when I discovered one morning that his back legs no longer worked (he unfortunately passed in April 2014). So she has not been with a male in close to a year. Could she have retained sperm and fertilized an ova this season, or was she perhaps carrying it since 2013 and something in her cycle got messed up?

She brumated fine this last season, on her own, from December until about late February.

Thoughts?

[Richard.C]

Funny you mention this as ive recently heard of the same thing occuring with another captive aspera,no male was with it from previous season and it had live babies

[Scotts1au]

I've not bred r.aspera but I have had a number of female blotchies that have had stillborn babies (probably due to overheating in summer), but the babies have come up to 2 months after the others have had their live babies.

I can imagine that if the babies were not born by the time that the bluey went into brumation that this could result in a dead baby being born in the following year/partially resorbed. Interesting. Dead babies can sit around for a long time if there is no impetuous for them to be born.

My understanding is that dead babies are often resorbed by animals, or continue to develop in a non automously living state and eventually expelled. In my case I've had dead ones born fully developed but huge (probably 70 grams or more - average is 30 grams for alpines), to small and undeveloped, right through to transparent and mushy.

That being said it is possible that parthenogenesis (spontaneous asexual reproduction of female offspring) occurs in blueys although I'm not sure that it has been properly documented. There is suggestion that it might happen occasionally in T.scincoides from a quick google. I'm personally not sold on theories about sperm storage, they are probably mixing concepts.

[Richard.C]

Yeah ive seen a couple of claims of sperm storage in easterns,one from a reputable herpetoligist,with easterns,specificlly females kept awau from males since the previous season supposedlu having big healthy litters the following season with out being with other animals

A chap i know mentioned the shingleback case recently,ill have to chase him up and see if i can get more details,the joys of 3rd hand subjects like this is its hard to know for sure all the particulars

A few seasons ago i had a large lowlands female drop babies in the middle of winter,mummified looking babies,i posted it on here but thats going back over 6 years ago,she used to be a good producer of babies then one year she showed all the signs but nothing ever happened,i even brought her indoors for winter as she was still showing signs,she would get fat looking but lose all her tail condition around baby time but never drop her body weight,unfortunatly she passed awau a couple of winters latermaking me wonder if she had babies stuck inside her

The bluey bible mentions glenn shea finding mummified babies in side a few easterns that were disected,so thats aleays a possability to

Couple of seasons back we had a very hot run of weather over blotchie gestation period resulting in alot of still born babies,suprisingly for me,was only the 2nd time ive ever had it,not including the mummified lowlands in winter,once was to my large old vic alpinelass very late in the season and babies appeared under developed,lots of still borns,two live transparent ones and quite a few slugs plus a big liquidy slug mess,6 dead,2 live,2 sligs and the massive yellow liquid mess away from all that,the live ones only lived 4 and 6 weeks respectivly and were clearly not fully developed,but suprisingly big babies for the amount she had in her,she normally averages 5 babies

And a couple of seasons ago in the hot summer every litter contained perfectly healthy babies and still borns,oddly a couple dropped more still borns up to 2 weeks after origionally giving birth

A few things could have happened,but does sound like possable sperm storage,one thing i noticed with the mumified babies,they stunk to high heaven,even outdoors in middle of winter,did u notice any smell when u found the baby,and if recent hows female seem now,as u cant write off there being another inside

Her behaviour sounds typical of protective birthing /post birth behaviour,some females go nuts,others stau mellow,and having copped bites from some rather large asperas many many years ago i can agree,they can give quite a bite,lol

[scaredofbees]

There was an odor, but nothing particularly overpowering.

She brumates on her own (slows down, stops feeding, sleeps a lot) and I wait almost a month from the time she stops feeding on her own to turn off the heat to prevent anything from spoiling in her stomach.

If viable offspring are conceived, but die during development, wouldn't they need to be expelled prior to brumation to avoid putrefying inside and killing the female while her metabolism is slowed down?

[scaredofbees]

But man... parthenogenesis in a shingleback... wouldn't that be a wonderful thing for us foreign keepers!