UVB or no?

[Apollo311]

I have read all the care sheets, some recommend UVB some say its kit required. I right now I am not providing my northern any UVB but I am giving him calcium + D3. I am really leaning towards adding a UVB light to his enclosure. So I was wondering how many of you do and how many of you don't provide UVB, and if you do what wattage is your bulb?

Apollo's daddy,
Matt

[Dakota]

I do not use a bulb (per sé), but my guys actually get sun that shines in on about half of their cage everyday, and I have not really noticed a difference as before I put them there back at the peak of summer.

I'm also buying a bulb for my poss. gravid female just in case today.

But I think the general assumption* is if you give a good diet and you supplement, you are pretty much good to go.

*ETA: I meant conclusion, not assumption.

[BlueTonguesOfSA]

Natural sun during appropriate seasons/temperatures. During indoor brumation, MVB's in every enclosure.

[Richard.C]

Uv or no uv just remember dietry intake is of way more importance so keep up supplementing diet and feeding a good diet,as uv alone wont fix lack of those

Wattage depends on the type of bulb,some use uv tubes,low watts,others use combination baskingbulb with uv,higher watts,some tubes have a higher percentage of uv output to,others have to be close to basking spots to be of any value

Personally i dont use it

[Susann]

I do not use a bulb (per sé), but my guys actually get sun that shines in on about half of their cage everyday, and I have not really noticed a difference as before I put them there back at the peak of summer.

Just a couple things about this statement...
#1, if the rays go through the screen on your porch, or through any glass (a window, the side of the tank) then the UVB rays are more than likely 100% null and cut out and void. UVB rays, to be of any affect at all, need to be as closely to unhindered as possible. If you have the lamp on top of a screen, it needs to bee a very large-hole mesh screen. If you have them in the sunlight, it needs to be direct sunlight.
#2, it would take MUCH longer than from the beginning of THIS summer for you to notice any difference. The only think you can really say is, if after having an animal develop MBD and then after YEARS of providing UVB and having no instances of MBD, that you have noticed a difference.
Just saying.

Personally, I like to be on the safe side, so I both supplement and use UVB with lots of hides and shady areas.
And ALWAYS have the source of UVB be no closer to the bottom of the cage than instructed by the manufacturer (which is dependent on the strength of the light).

[saisaac]

I do not use a bulb (per sé), but my guys actually get sun that shines in on about half of their cage everyday, and I have not really noticed a difference as before I put them there back at the peak of summer.

Just a couple things about this statement...
#1, if the rays go through the screen on your porch, or through any glass (a window, the side of the tank) then the UVB rays are more than likely 100% null and cut out and void. UVB rays, to be of any affect at all, need to be as closely to unhindered as possible. If you have the lamp on top of a screen, it needs to bee a very large-hole mesh screen. If you have them in the sunlight, it needs to be direct sunlight.
#2, it would take MUCH longer than from the beginning of THIS summer for you to notice any difference. The only think you can really say is, if after having an animal develop MBD and then after YEARS of providing UVB and having no instances of MBD, that you have noticed a difference.
Just saying.

Personally, I like to be on the safe side, so I both supplement and use UVB with lots of hides and shady areas.
And ALWAYS have the source of UVB be no closer to the bottom of the cage than instructed by the manufacturer (which is dependent on the strength of the light).

This isn't entirely true. A UVB bulb on top of a mesh top will not be as effective, but it does not need to be direct sunlight in order to be beneficial. Even in the relative shade they will get UVB exposure equivalent to roughly 50% of what they recieve in direct sun (depending of course on the UV index for that day in general). A screen porch with direct sunlight shining through it will lose a significant amount of the UVB, but there wills still be beneficial amounts coming through. Through glass you do loose almost all if not 100% of the UVB.

This might be helpful:
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/fluorescenttubemeshtests.htm

Richard makes a great point as well: UVB alone isn't a cure all. Diet is equally important as is proper husbandry in general. However, one thing I have noticed from spending a lot of time on BeardedDragon.org over the years is that UVB and proper temperatures do help hide or defend against poor diet/nutrition. I personally saw the difference in my beardie. She was impacted and had other health issues from being on a poor diet, on walnut substrate, and kept with poor temperatures and no UVB. Once I changed her diet and a Reptisun 10.0 she improved significantly. After about a year, I switched to a Mercury Vapor Bulb (I used the Megaray and T-Rex Active UV Heat alternatively) I then saw an even more dramatic increase in her activity and appetite.

I know that Blueys seem to be able to thrive without UVB, but that is little reason to not provide it. Most reptiles, especially diurnal lizards from hot/UV intense environments thrive with UVB and suffer without it. So why not provide it? Cost? If you can't afford to provide a UV bulb, you shouldn't have an animal in your home.

[Teacup]

I know that Blueys seem to be able to thrive without UVB, but that is little reason to not provide it. Most reptiles, especially diurnal lizards from hot/UV intense environments thrive with UVB and suffer without it. So why not provide it? Cost? If you can't afford to provide a UV bulb, you shouldn't have an animal in your home.

Better safe than sorry, IMO.

[Richard.C]

How do nocturnal reptiles survive with lack of uv lighting?

Theres nothing wrong with using it,history has shown theres nothing wrong not using it either

No uv light is a close match to natural sunlight

History has also shown diet and supplementation to be of far greater importance,as uv provided lizard equally get mbd issues if not supplemented and or fed a lack lustre diet

Its a silly debate as the important part gets missed,dietry intake

Are nocturnal reptiles any less healthy to dirunal reptiles,mother nature doesnt gift them with night time uv lighting

[Apollo311]

I think I'm just gonna get him a low wattage UVB light just to be safe. I have a feeling he would survive without, but I don't want him to just "survive" I want him to thrive! I plan on having him around for the next 20 years or so.

[Dakota]

Susann, this may be true. But when it is direct sun goinng through the screen, it is going to be MUCH higher than any bulb on the market, even if it does get slightly filtered. Bulbs are just about nothing.. and you can still still a sunburn on the patio FYI.

[El Lobo]

Bulbs are just about nothing.. .

I would like to see that scientifically substantiated.

[Dakota]

There was a picture posted on a monitor group that had a UV monitor thing (that costs like a LOT of money), and they compared the numbers from a new UVB bulb, and typical outside UV radiation. The numbers were VERY different. I wish I could find the photo now.. it was a few months ago.

UVB bulbs do not compare to the sun..

[El Lobo]

I do not see where anyone is claiming UVB compares to exposure to the sun,but that is a long way from claiming bulbs "are just about nothing".

A bit dated but helps to explain the fundamentals:
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=58

[Dakota]

So why not provide it? Cost? If you can't afford to provide a UV bulb, you shouldn't have an animal in your home.

That just sounded something a lot like this:

What if someone told you, that was very experienced with BTS, that Northern Blue-Tongued Skinks required a minimum housing of 10' x 5' per skink (because it would thrive more with more space to explore, giving it mental stability in the long run; exercising the brain with the big space upon giving lots of hides, mimicing the wild)? Even though your experience with a cage half that size was non-questionable, would you upgrade? If not, why wouldn't you? Would the cost of the cage and size of the cage be a factor of the issue? If so, you do not need a skink in your house.

Basically saying people have different care techniques. All because you do not supplement (FOR ANY REASON), does not mean you should now own them, especially since people keep them without it, like Richard as a perfect example.

If it were to be a life or death thing, maybe your strong opinion would be valid - but people successfully keep them without a day in their lives being exposed to it, example Richard. Dietary and supplementation is more important than buying a UVB bulb, IMO.

[Dakota]

I do not see where anyone is claiming UVB compares to exposure to the sun,but that is a long way from claiming bulbs "are just about nothing".

A bit dated but helps to explain the fundamentals:
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=58

I meant nothing compared to the sun, my apologies.

[Teacup]

If it were to be a life or death thing, maybe your strong opinion would be valid - but people successfully keep them without a day in their lives being exposed to it, example Richard. Dietary and supplementation is more important than buying a UVB bulb, IMO.

I think the issue is complicated by the fact that this is a discussion that has been going on in the reptile community in regards to many different species for a very long time. I remember when folks would argue that iguanas and beardies didn't need UVB and would 'do fine' without. Now it's generally accepted that many reptiles will thrive with this addition. Mistakes of the past makes some of us very leery, I suspect.

Richard is actually a great example here because he keeps beautiful animals and successfully breeds them. To me, that's a much stronger argument for adequate diet being more important in BTS than UVB. However, my concern is how many hobby breeders will keep to that standard? If a UV bulb will not cause harm, I would encourage new owners to use one. For experienced keepers who are confident in their abilities to provide exceptional food choices and correct supplementation, I am not going to judge them for deciding not to use UVB.

[Dakota]

Very good point, Teacup, very good point indeed. Now THAT is what I call a good response to the debate. Not because someone may not be able to afford one telling they should not own an animal ( ), but because their lack of experience/stability of a correct diet/supplementation that they are not totally confident in.

Cheers to that.

[Teacup]

Very good point, Teacup, very good point indeed. Now THAT is what I call a good response to the debate. Not because someone may not be able to afford one telling they should not own an animal ( ), but because their lack of experience/stability of a correct diet/supplementation that they are not totally confident in.

Cheers to that.

Thanks.

To be fair to saisaac , I think s/he is just passionate about good animal husbandry, and I can definitely relate to that. We've all come across folks in this hobby who use money as an excuse for less than adequate care and it gets very frustrating. I'm sure s/he meant no offense.

[Apollo311]

Thanks for letting me know your opinions. Affording one is not an issue here, I just read that they didn't need them when I first got him, so I didn't get one. Now after I've had him for a couple months I've read that it might be a good idea. My personal opinion is that it couldn't hurt, and will probably prolong his life in the long run, so going to add UVB for sure.

[Susann]

If you use the search function on this forum and input "UVB" you will get tons of material to read through on different people's opinions on why you should or should not use UVB.