Shingleback dragging back legs...

[scaredofbees]

Hello all,

I have a group of 1.2 Tiliqua Rugosa aspera. They are in the neighborhood of about 14 years old (but Inhonestly don't know for sure). This morning, I discovered the male lying on his side, between their cork bark hide and the wall of the enclosure. His body feels a bit "squishier" than usual. It also appears as though he cannot move his rear legs. He moves along, dragging them behind him. Yearerday he was just fine. Diet is fine, at least 75% quality vegetable matter, 10-15% fruit, and 10% animal protein. Supplements as recommended. No special UV lighting. The frmales seem as strong and robist as ever. He doesn't appear to have sustained an injury (pelvic bite marks or any blood / smashed body parts). To be fair, of the three, he's always been the most listless / lazy... I would take the other two out of the enclosure during feeding time until he got his full, otherwise they'd shove him out of the way. He was also always the slowest of the three.

I realize once reptiles show these sorts of extreme symptoms, the prognosis is generally not good, but any ideas?

[Coomassie]

He needs a vet, ASAP. I would check for an impaction which can be done by xray.

[Mimo]

Not sure but isnt it better to quaratine the skink? (Untill you know more from a vet?)
Since he is weak and all?

[scaredofbees]

Sorry for all the typos in my original message. To be fair, it was written with my phone while I was on the treadmill... excuses, excuses...

Anyhow, I don't think impaction is the cause of this. He doesn't eat his substrate, none gets into his food, and I also don't believe, even if he was impacted, that it would cause his rear limbs to cease functioning properly.

The "squishiness" I was referring to was more of a limp or weak musculature issue rather than any sort of abdominal bloating.

His rear legs will move if tickled, but very weakly and without purpose.

I've separated him from the others in the event it is a viral issue. I did have a case of mites last year brought in by an apparently filthy blotchie that died after a month in my care. I eradicated the issue though shortly after I noticed it and have not seen any re-infestations.

[Alexander]

I also do believe you should got to a vet.
"I discovered the male lying on his side, between their cork bark hide and the wall of the enclosure"
The question is was he lying on his side there because his legs were weak before, or did he got stuck and could not get out by himself. If he damaged himself there it would have the better prognosis. He should then get some sort of anti inflammatory drug and it should get better every day.

[scaredofbees]

An anti-inflammatory sounds like a possible remedy, or at least a logical step. I've already set up an appointment with my reptile guy for this evening, so hopefully I'll get some more answers.

[Coomassie]

The only reason I suggested an impaction was because my PTS had very similar symptoms when he was impacted. It was only a partial impaction but he did not use his back legs and was kind of "squishy". He also isn't know to eat substrate. Just a theory, either way, he needs a vet.

[scaredofbees]

That's actually really interesting. What was the cause of the impaction?

[Jeff]

I'm sorry to hear that Nathan. I don't have anything to offer, but I hope you get good news from the vet.

[scaredofbees]

I think Coomassie might be on to something. If something is pressing against the sciatic nerve, that would cause limited use of the rear limbs. Whether impaction is the cause of this, remains to be seen I suppose. That being said, I apologize if I sounded dismissive of your initial diagnosis.

[scaredofbees]

If anyone is interested in an update, there appears to be a blockage which is pressing against a nerve causing limited use of his hindquarters. He was given a dose of flagyl and also batryl. The recommendation is warm, Epsom bath soaks to help him pass the blockage. In the morning, I'm to administer a small squirt of mineral oil. While massaging his abdomen this evening, he discharged a decent amout of water in addition to an overly dry, claylike clump of feces about the size of a kidney bean. He hasn't regained use of the limbs yet, but it looks like he might hopefully be able to pass more of the blockage. Fortunately I work from home and can monitor (or obsess over) his progress.

[Scincoides]

Great, I'm glad to hear that its a fairly easy and inexpensive fix.

[Seadation]

Hope he gets better! If he passed some there is hope the mineral oil should help. Good Luck!

[Richard.C]

Hopefully he passes the rest easily,and gets back to his old self

[Coomassie]

Sorry, I didn't respond again yesterday. I'm working on a grant that is due next week. We never figured out what caused Bandit's impaction. He passed it a few days later. He got fluids and vitamins at the vet. When we got home, we pulled him off his substrate for about a week, just to be safe. We also did the soaking. He passed relatively normal looking poo about 2 or 3 times before he was back to his old self. Bandit is pretty spunky so it is easy to tell when he is feeling well or not. I think hydration is really key in these kinds of cases. Hope he continues to improve and keep us updated!

[Scotts1au]

oops I wrote the following response before I read about the blockage. Did the vet diagnose a blockage? ie. ultrasound? would be interesting to know.

good luck.

I would ask the vet about the possbility of Calcium deficiency (hypocalcemia), you mention supplements as recommended, but 10% protein is low in the diet for an indoor bluey ( which can influence the amount of exogenous Vit D3) and if not using D3 in supplements it could be an issue. The only reason I mention it is because weakness would be seen in the back legs more than the front as the front ones are generally stronger anyway. So the symptoms you describe are consistent with a general weakness/listlessness. These issues have been reported as diagnosed and sucessfully treated by vets on this forum before. Also treatment can be given even without a definitive diagnosis as it wont impacts treatment for other possible maladies.

The other potential problem to ask the vet about is "worms" and possible associated anaemia which would also give similar symptoms. If that is the case then care should be taken in treatment and after care, particularly in his weakened state. Talk to the vet about diet, specific supplement requirements and what you might have to do to potentially prevent him from going into brumation this year.

Good luck.

[El Lobo]

Interesting to note the vet has elected to treat a blockage with two antibiotics i.e. enrofloxacin and metronidazole. Maybe they suspect an infection of the brain which could explain the flaccidity as a neurological response.

[Alexander]

So is the male T.r.a. getting better? The metronidazol is for suspected Hexamita that can damage the kidney. That could couse a swollen kidney and a pressure on the nerves. One could check for flagellates if the male is not getting any better so far. Much fluid would be helpful in the case of the kidney szenario. If you see the vet again an x-ray would be interesting.

[scaredofbees]

He's completed his course of medications and now all that is left to do is wait. He's not as listless as he was last week, and has regained some partial movement in one of the rear limbs when we walks, but not completely. He is soaked a few times daily and the sides massaged to hopefully stimulate movement of the mass. During his medication treatment, he was given a small dose of mineral oil daily to encourage digestive movement. I'm keeping him well hydrated with water and giving him pedialyte once daily. I've moved him to a quiet corner of the basement where there's no noise or activity.

The blockage is suspected to be a compound impaction comprised of a buildup of chitin and other non-digestible material (small seeds... cellulose...) over many years. I wish I would have taken a photo of the x-ray while I was there. It was interesting to see. As far as the chitin, he would occasionally receive a small, male dubia, only a few per year and sometimes superworms.. but again just a few per year. It was never a major part of his diet and was used more as a feeding stimulator than anything (he's always been a bit sluggish compared to the others).

So all I really can do now is wait.

[Mimo]

Glad he can partly move his limbs, i hope he will regain his health as soon as possible.