Our BTS Java isn't eating it's been 38 days.

[Geo]

Java our 2+ year old male Merauke hasn't eaten in 38 days. He usually eats every other day to every 3 days. The longest he has gone before without eating was 11 days. We went on vacation for 8 days & while gone my Mom took care of him. He ate normally without an issue. The day we came back he started to shed. Usually after a shed he is famished but not this time. He seems to be as active as he normally is. We have tried live food, his favorite foods, changed his cage, made sure it was the right temp by buying new thermometers. What isn't normal is he is having 1 large sperm plug every week before it was ever 2 to 3 weeks & smaller than now. No fecal matter bcos he isn't eating. His tail looks lumpy as if he is losing weight in it. & his under belly to tail looks redder than normal almost a salmon pink color.

Worried 4 days ago we took Java to the only reptile vet here in Eugene, Oregon & she has no idea what is wrong with him. She suggested giving him warm soaks 15mins to 20mins 2x a day & gave us baytril shots to give him daily in his forearm. The vet called today for a follow up & suggest we give him 5 more days of baytril shots & continue to soak. I'm worried that we might be giving him antibiotics when he doesn't need any.

Does anyone have any advice? Any suggestions on what to do? We are worried sick about our Java & any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks for your time & consideration, Geo

[Lea]

It's probable he is just going into brumation and trying to slow down for winter. The weight loss sounds like it may be a concern so early in brumation though. Are you able to post pictures? If not, email some to me at littlepinklizard@gmail.com and I'll post them for you, or help you out with advice.

The colouration change is probably normal, too, unless you have had a temperature change that could account for burns on the belly and tail, it's likely normal. Some get pinker as they get older, with some bellies very red in colour.

The lumpy tail could be weight loss, but may be totally unrelated to the slowing down and might be signs of MBD, it's very hard to say without pictures. A clear body shot from above and the sides, as well as a close up of where the problem is, will help.

It's good that you have seen a vet, but hopefully this will turn out to be the normal signs of a brumating skink- which you can then educate your vet about!

[Lea]

Oh, and I don't think soaking him will be of any benefit unless you have a particular problem to treat. It will just cause him more stress than necessary. Leave him be, let him do what is natural for him and monitor for signs of respiratory problems, in particular laboured breathing or bubbly nose and eyes, excessive mucous production etc, but the baytril will help cover a broad spectrum of bugs if required. I'd hold off giving antibiotics unless you have commenced the course, in which case continue until they are finished.

Please remember though, that although I'd suggest to hold antibiotic therapy unless you have a specific reason to give, I'm not a vet and you should discuss this further with your vet before making your final decision.

[Richard.C]

Has it cooled down much in your neck of the woods of late,my guess is yes it has and perhaps with that its cycling him to get frisky,dropping spermplugs,active still and no interest in food is a classic symptom of a frisky male,susann a member on this forum may be able to relate to this at this time of year


The lumpy tail,is it mostly in the vent area to an inch or so towards the tip?

[Bluish]

Some stellar advice from your vet Sounds like the vets around here.
The lumps in his tail are probably his hemipenes getting larger which usually happens at this time of year. Most of my male meraukes eat through the winter. One of them fasted last year and he refused food last week end so he may fast again this year. I would let the night temps drop so he doesn't use his fat reserves too quickly if it is a prolonged fast.

[Geo]

Here is a pictures of his tail.

The vet also had us remove all the substrate & use paper towel.

[Geo]

another picture of his tail

[Dakota]

Oh yeah, definitely not anything to do with hemipenes. Tiliqua gigas store more fat on the throat, rather than the tail.. so dramatic change in appearance in the tail should be low. But then again, you feed him quite often.. so.. hmm.. he definitely looks skinny.

Higher temperatures would mean metabolism would be much quicker, in turn making him use his fat reserve while he is not eating. Maybe trying turning the basking light off? He has no food in him to digest, so it wouldn't hurt. Let's see what other members think about it.

[Geo]

It's unusual for him not to eat. He has never gone this long. Every meal we put vitamins/calcium on his food.
I'm very disappointed in the vet. We have seen her twice & her suggestion is the same every time. Increase the heat, soak him 2x a day, & give him antibiotics. I wish Eugene had a better source for reptile wellness. Someone suggested call the Oregon Zoo & talking to their reptile person.

[Dakota]

Have you tried syringe-feeding?

[Geo]

I did try to feed him a small amount in syringe & he ate it no problem. Then I read the worse thing you can do is force feed them.

[Dakota]

It should be your last resort.. and it sounds to this point. Doesn't sound like he will go too much longer with normal temperatures.

[Richard.C]

Yes tail appears kinked rather than hemipenal buldge,do u know the temps of yor enclosure,warm end,cool end and basking spot temps,if your room temp is quite cool,turning basking lamp off may be to cold for him

Tail base still looks solid for a gigas,no hip bones present,they use there tails as a fat store not there throats,they just have an overall long skiny look compared to other species

I still think hes picking up the cooling thats naturally occuring,which even with good basking temp can cycle them in a cooler climate,dropping cool end temps and ambients is often enough to cycle tropical occuring reptiles

Dakota its far from its last resort,and correct temps havny been established yet,please stop unnessacarilly stressing people asking for advice,your pretty much telling them its doomed and needs fotce feeding as its at last resort stage,its far from that

Geo can u check all those temps mrntioned earlier, and the over nite temps as well,most of the time its a husbandry issue

[Dakota]

Tail base still looks solid for a gigas,no hip bones present,they use there tails as a fat store not there throats,they just have an overall long skiny look compared to other species

Meraukes and other gigas BTS will store fat in the jowl area - Scincoides will generally store fat more in their tails. So it's totally normal.

[Dakota]

Dakota its far from its last resort,and correct temps havny been established yet,please stop unnessacarilly stressing people asking for advice,your pretty much telling them its doomed and needs fotce feeding as its at last resort stage,its far from that

Geo can u check all those temps mrntioned earlier, and the over nite temps as well,most of the time its a husbandry issue

He said he checked temperatures, and even bought a new one to make sure they were right, found here:

He seems to be as active as he normally is. We have tried live food, his favorite foods, changed his cage, made sure it was the right temp by buying new thermometers.

Assuming he knows what the correct temperatures are, I would be inclined to syringe-feed, if it were me. Especially if he said if he took it good. But that's me.. I never had a skink to go over 3 weeks without eating. I couldn't imagine one going almost 2 months.. on correct temperatures.

[Katrina]

Dakota, maybe you shouldn't quote people out of context. Two quotes and a smiley isn't exactly an insightful or helpful post!

Yes, gigas spp. generally have a more prominent jowl area as opposed to scincoides. That just means that a large gigas will have a much more prominent jowl and might not look so bulky in the tail. But Tiliqua gigas still do store fat in their tails - they just often have a skinnier tail in comparison. Fat gigas or fat scincoides will have a different appearance, but all Tiliqua will store fat in their tails.

Advising someone to syringe feed is very poor advice, especially if a vet just examined the BTS and did not advise this. I've had blueys not eat for many months with no ill effects, 38 days is not very long to not eat, many males will do that in spring after just spending months in brumation. If the vet didn't advise syringe feeding, I definitely wouldn't - it is stressful and can make things worse. Obviously, the vet may not have known much about BTS but I assume they would know enough to figure out if the animal was in severe enough condition to warrant syringe feeding.

[Richard.C]

So when buying a gigas to see of there in ok condition, you dont check for hip bones being present,u check to see if there throat areas carrying enough weight,lol

You read to much instead of going off experience,look at your maxx when u got it,was under weight,throat was fine,tail looked skin and bone with hipbones present,you fed it up and what area looked most improved?

Thats because its fat reserves were stocked back up
no actual temps were stated,so how do you know temps are correct?
Not everyone lives on florida

Finding out why its gone off food is more important right now and the description points to lizard picking up cues its cooled down,that happens when u dont live in subtropical to tropical zones

Late autumn,winter and early spring we normally get these same symptoms from other members every year asking as they are worried

I have a male western that been awake 90 days still hasnt eaten since before brumation,its dropping plugs galore,has recently shed and hopefully start mating the female soon,thats typical of males when they are cycled

Oneday you may see this pattern,suprised you havnt read about it

[Dakota]

Animals do can do it, but look at how skinny that thing is. A Merauke THAT skinny. They are a pretty slender species of Tiliqua, but I would really worried if my skinks were ever that skinny. Hunter wasn't even that skinny when I got him (..and he was pretty skinny).

I only said it was the last resort, not by how many days it has been, but how poorly this skink looks and how he is acting now. He is clearly starving, judging by how skinny he is and how many days it has been. Something is keeping him from eating. He got force fed once, and he said he took it like a champ.. so I would think he is hungry, but something is stopping to eat. His brain is telling him otherwise.

And Richard, he said he bought a temperature gun to make sure everything was right, and since he said there wasn't anything wrong, we could infer that they were right.. to his knowledge.

---

Geo, I would definitely be inclined to contacting another vet. I'm think her telling you to raise temperatures would make him metabolize more; making him hungry.. but I would be extremely cautious/if not do it, because if he doesn't pick up the ques like your vet is hoping, could be a point to no return. I'm am no vet, by any means, just how I look at it. DEFINITELY get a second recommendation from a reptile vet about raising temperatures. Mention syringe feeding, and see what they say.

[Richard.C]

Animals do can do it? What the

It says bought thermometers,not temp guns,and know where does it say any temps

Temps are hunky dory might be your method of husbandry,but that doesnt accuratly tell you anything

Stuffing food down its gob doesnt tell you why its stopped eating,looks in much better shape than maxx did originally

If the sense cooler conditions,common in cooler areas,there body tells them to not eat,id say thats why vet said up temps,not nessacarilly basking temps,but ambients,but im not a gigas guru so what do i know

[Dakota]

I meant healthy animals can, this is not a healthy skink.

Well, when I say thermometer, I mean a gun. Geo, make sure it is a gun; they are more reliable.