Charlie took a fall

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mywave
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Charlie took a fall

Postby mywave » Tue May 28, 2013 3:44 am

Hi Members this post concerns an impact injury to a Baby (3 months) BTS chest.

We are new to keeping BTS and our Baby BTS Charlotte surprised us by climbing up the side of her Terrarium and dropped 11 inches onto her chest,
we had not expected she could climb the venting but now we know how good she is at pushing herself up to things to climb them.

We have since fixed the air vent so she can no longer perform aerobatics but she has obviously hurt her self in the fall.

She didn't slow down and kept exploring for that day but she is walking with an odd gait and on her legs not chest,
no longer slithering unless she gets startled.

It has been 3 days since she fell, and she is still pushing her chest up off the ground and walking with that odd gait.
As it is onset of winter here in NZ I'm expecting her behavior to change some what,
so I wasn't surprised she has slowed her eating in the last few days,
but she did have a good feed today. she has been hiding more and is more timid since her fall.

I have hesitated to take her to the vet as I am worried the stress of taking her and the fact she wriggles a lot when picked up might make this injury worse.

Any advice is welcomed, I have read that falls are a common mistake for new BTS owners, and I feel terrible that she has hurt her self :sad3:
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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby Lea » Tue May 28, 2013 3:58 am

You need an X-ray and a vet. I understand your concern regarding wriggling exacerbating the injury, but there is nothing we can say or do here to help, it would be guesswork. My guess, therefore, would be a shoulder, joint or collarbone type of injury, all of which would need veterinary assistance.

Please go to your vet, this problem will only worsen if there is bone involvement and may affect movement, cause lethargy and a reduction in appetite.

I'm moving this to the general discussion area, since there is no need for it to be in the advanced area.
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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby mywave » Tue May 28, 2013 1:22 pm

Thanks for that, We will get her to the Vet ASAP.
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Charlie Vet update

Postby mywave » Tue May 28, 2013 11:27 pm

Hi Guys, took Charlie to the Vet today, the X-rays didn't show any broken/fractured ribs, and her bone density is pretty good, the Vet said this is likely why she didn't suffer a worse injury. She gave me some pain killers, and advised a steady amount of calcium supplementation.
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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby Lea » Wed May 29, 2013 1:13 am

That's a relief. Just keep a close eye on her for signs of lethargy. It's hard to determine whether a soft tissue injury could cause further problems, so malaise and lethargy will be your best guides. Always make sure she has plenty of fresh water available, too. She may go off her food if she has pain, which won't be an issue for a week or 10 days, but if lack of appetite persists, you might need a further vet consult.

Pain relievers can cause kidney or liver damage if not given correctly, so double and triple check your doses prior to administering. If you think she is managing ok without them, moving well, etc, then I would be inclined not to give them. What did your vet prescribe?

I'm pleased you took her to a vet, it's always best to rule out more serious injuries in cases like this, so well done. I'm sure Charlie would appreciate it if she understood.
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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby Lea » Wed May 29, 2013 1:22 am

Oh, and just because it's close to winter in NZ, you might want to warm her tank a few degrees, so she doesn't start to brumate until the injury has repaired and her problems are resolved. Given that you have been ordered pain killers, too, it would just make sense to have her completely off those before she brumates.

Of course, she might just go to sleep regardless, they do that whether we like it or not, but as a baby with an injury it might be prudent to do whatever it take to delay or even stop that happening this winter. The healthier she is going into brumation, the more likely she will come out healthy, too. It's tough, because they do whatever they want to do though, but it's definitely something to bear in mind.
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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby mywave » Wed May 29, 2013 2:00 am

Thank you heaps for your advice LeaBilby!
The Vet prescribed 0.01ml once daily by mouth of Metacam 0.10, 15ml
Depending on how she is over the next 5 days, we will take her for another check up next week.

Have fixed the Terrarium so that she will be getting a better shot of UV from the flouro tube,
it was sitting on the mesh but have now mounted it inside, approx 30 cm from basking spot, its a reptile one 5 UVB tube.
This has also meant we can insulate the mesh so it should push those temps up a couple degrees, especially at night where its been dropping a lot.
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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby El Lobo » Wed May 29, 2013 2:49 am

Hi there.

I see from your reply the vet has prescribed the NSAID Metacam which is both pain relief and anti-inflammatory. It comes in two strengths, one for cats and another for dogs and usually has an image of one or the other on the label. The active ingredient is meloxicam and will be expressed as as either 0.5mg/ml (the cat one) or 1.5mg/ml (the dog one).

Sorry for the long preamble but the dosage of 0.01mls seems very low, depending on which strength has been given. Also the accurate weight of the bluey is essential to do dosage calculations.
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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby Lea » Wed May 29, 2013 3:01 am

I'm not sure I understand your figures, but usually the recommended prescription of metacam for reptiles is 0.2mg/kg, which would be for a 100g (est) baby, 0.02mg (WSAVA, 2007).The preparation of metacam is usually a standard 1.5mg/ml, which would make the dose 0.014mls, but this depends on the weight of your bluey. El lobo usually has more info on the dosage and he may have other recommendations.

Again, it does depend on the strength of what you've been given, as there are different preps for mammals, which may be what your vet stocks. It sounds a very safe dose, maybe a little low even. Again, norm has more information than I do, so perhaps message him, or wait see if he replies.

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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby Lea » Wed May 29, 2013 3:02 am

Ok, I obviously waffled on and El lobo has already replied! Thanks, Norm!
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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby mywave » Wed May 29, 2013 3:38 am

Hi Guys, the Vet weighed Charlie and she came in at 92 gms, The vet said, aside from the fall, her health is fine.
The Metacam label reads "0.10 Metacam Oral Cat 15ml" and her prescribed dosage was 0.01ml,
The vet seemed surprised that Charlie was quite keen to lick her first dose in the clinic off the dosing syringe straight off the bat.
She is quite greedy though.
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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby Richard.C » Wed May 29, 2013 3:58 am

do u supplement diet with calcium/vitamin d3,an 11 inch drop in a cage isnt usually a big deal for them,i noticed u have u uv tube,but they wont give your bluey calcium/d3 in any great amount so dietry supplementation is a very i.portant part of there husbandry,way more important than a uv tube

youngens can hurt them selves easier than well advanced ones so always the chance they can land awkardly and hurt them selves,thankfully vets given bone density the all clear,fingers crossed for a speedy recovery
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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby Lea » Wed May 29, 2013 4:24 am

Then your dosage is pretty appropriate for the size of your skink, I think.

Take each day as it comes and don't continue unnecessarily with the meds. I'm sure Charlie will recover quickly now the initial shock is over. It's just so hard assessing pain in reptiles, but hopefully it's just superficial bruising, since there is no bony injury and she'll be right as rain in a few days.

And you are welcome, of course! We can't replace a vet, though, so it's great you sought help for your little girl to cover all possibilities.
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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby El Lobo » Wed May 29, 2013 6:26 am

Sorry to have taken so long to get back. I have been calculating over and over because of the small body weight when I am much more used to dealing with significantly higher doses.

My calculation:
0.2mg/kg (meloxicam) / 0.5mg/mls = .04mls x .092kg (weight of BTS) = 0.0368mls rounded 0.03-0.04mls. This is based on the standard Metacam for cats at 0.5mg active constituent of meloxicam/ml. If it is the dog formulation of 1.5mg/ml then the dose should be divided by 3 as it is 3 times stronger.

The "0.10 Metacam Oral Cat 15mls" is something I haven't seen before and I went all over the bottle of Metacam I have.The reason for two different formulations is that cats do not tolerate meloxicam very well with the higher formulation leading to renal damage.

References for dosage of 0.2mg/kg for reptiles:

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/navc/20 ... 1.pdf?LA=1

Page 6 of the following paper presented to WSAVA 2007 by Robert Johnson BVSc MACVSc CertZooMed BA. I have known the author for over ten years and fully trust his knowledge and experience of reptiles.

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/Wsava/2 ... 07_abs.pdf

Most animals accept Metacam well, it tastes like honey; yes I have sampled it and I'll take it over Baytril any day. :)
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Re: Charlie took a fall

Postby El Lobo » Wed May 29, 2013 7:32 am

For the veterinary nerds this link has a rarity, results of a pharmacokinetic study of meloxicam on a reptile. In this case a green iguana.

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/navc/20 ... 1.pdf?LA=1
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