Eastern x northern

[Reptile- mad]

Since an eastern is a subspecies of a northern would breeding them be acceptable? Would it reduce the value? I have a white eastern boy but I would really like a northern blue tongue skink.

[Jeff]

Like you said, they are the same species, and their natural ranges overlap in the wild. This means that there is some naturally occurring integrades between these two in the wild.

Personally, I would recommend against crossing the two because they are two different sub-species. The offspring will be less desirable to most people than pure babies of either type. You have a very different situation, being in Australia than we do on the outside though. You still have access to more wild skinks of any type you like.

[Richard.C]

Can be done,but even in aus its generally frowned apon,babies end up being a cross,so wont be easterns or northerns

Intergrade zones are often mentioned,but to tell u the truth i dont recall ever seeing a pic of one

[RoryBreaker]

Heres a picture I took of one that was for sale at the 2012 VHS expo in Melbourne. The seller said it was an Eastern cross Northern. It apparently sold pretty quickly too.



Didn't make it to the 2013 expo this year, did you go this year Richard?

[Richard.C]

Naah didnt go this year,did a 12 and a half hour straight shift,hospitality kind of kills my weekends,lol

Interesting pic rory,almost looks kimberleyish patterning with the eastern in it to,there was a for sale a whike back,of kimberley cross easterns,a few sub adults,i wonder if that was one of them

A few years ago i saw some north qld easterns for sale at a melb pet shop,they claimed they were the longest growing blueys in australia,maybe a sales pitch,but they are pretty good at this shop,i was tempted,but was picking up a couple of northerns so left it

[critterguy]

If that animals was in the states I wonder if it'd just be labeled as a Northern.

[Richard.C]

Looks way more eastern than northern

[Jeff]

I'm curious why you say that Richard. I can see how it could be an integrade, but I would really like to see additional pictures. Too bad that isn't possible with that particular skink. The tail shape and size is one of the big things that is different between a typical northern and a typical eastern, and you can't see that at all in this picture. Also I would like to see if it shows the "fade to black" that is common in many, if not most easterns.

I have no reason to question the claim that this skink is a northern x eastern integrade, but my opinion is that it looks more northern than eastern. You have probably seen way more of both than I have though, so I would really like to hear why you think it looks more eastern.

I have a couple of northerns that show subtle eastern traits. These are skinks that have been bred as northerns to other similar northerns for generations. I don't think anyone would question that they have never been crossed with anything else, but my opinion is that they most likely originated from the naturally occurring integrade zone in the wild. Both of the skinks that show what I am talking about the best are in shed right now or I would post pictures. I have seen a number of skinks that I suspect have both northern and eastern traits only because their ancestors originated from an area where these two groups co-exist.

[Reptile- mad]

Oh well, I knew it was a long shot. But I still think there are going to be beautiful eastern babies in my future

[Richard.C]

Thats not a natural intergrade jeff,it looks like a southern green phase eastern,with northern traits,it looks rather long,be cool to see more pics

Rory what was it like in the flesh,to me it lacks silver and has the green tinge of a southern eastern,its patterning has a northern element predominating though,but has alot of eastern to,eg the darkness of the banding,looks very black,which generally isnt the band color that predominates northerns,more on flanks and lighter across back

[RoryBreaker]

The seller was upfront and said it was a result of an accidental breeding. I agree with you Richard and can see the 'southern' Eastern influence in it. Looked like it was a well looked after family pet though.....the thing was huge, fat as!

As for it resembling an intergrade that is naturally occuring, not a chance. Blue tongue keeping in Australia is not quite up to the sophistication of Python keeping, i.e. there aren't a lot of known locality animals kicking around in collections being line bred. At least the Albino and Black blue tongues all come from Sydney Basin founding stock, but even they are now being outcrossed with easterns from further afield.

On a side note, an Eastern from Port Lincoln in South Australia gave birth for me a couple of days ago. She's only a smallish girl and had 6 in the litter.


Female

Male


Cheers

[Lea]

She's a lovely looking girl, Rory. Typical SA colours. They look so much more distinct from the northern blue tongues. It's more difficult to distinguish the subspecies with a Queensland eastern and a northern, than it is with a south Australian eastern.

[Richard.C]

Nice one rory,the babies look quite distinctive,nice contrast of green and black,the mum is a good example to show the southern eastern in that cross,the cross does look huge in the pic,pretty sure it was the same seller from the old add i saw,there was originally 3 siblings,and seller labeled them correctly even stating it was an acidental cross,wasnt expeting them to mate,but could be just a coincedence

In australia alot of keepers dont even realose what species they have,ive seen plenty of blotcheds labeled as easterns and vice versa,plus if i had a dollar for every eastern being called a northern i could afford an american centralian,lol

[Jeff]

Those are nice ones Rory!

I didn't mean to imply that the first skink pictured looked like a naturally occurring integrade, just that I have a pure northern line that originally came from Australia with locale information. The skinks from this line are very dark and look VERY similar to the skink in the first picture. I will try to get some decent pictures to compare.

[Jeff]

Here's one I had on my phone. The lighting is different, but this skink could look a lot like the one picture if it was in the same position and lighting. I have another northern that might even be more similar.

[Lea]

Jeff, I think Michele needs a thread on her own, she's such a beauty!