Aspen in the poo

[auristi]

Hello all

I got Kahless for a bit over a month ago now and he seems to be settling in well. However, I have noticed his poop seems to contain bits of Aspen in it (which is his substrate). When I feed him it is either out of his cage or on a wooden platform so the food does not touch the Aspen. He does love to burrow, could he be ingesting it then?

He is not having any major issues pooping, goes usually once a day in the same area, but I am worried that it could cause problems in the long run. Any ideas on this?

Thanks!

[wrath]

Bump

[Fatal_S]

I didn't want to reply because I'm very perplexed. In my (limited) experience a skink only eats the substrate when A) it first encounters the substrate and tastes it, or B) when food gets onto the substrate. For it to be ingesting substrate is extremely strange. They don't open their mouths to burrow (really, only open to yawn, eat and bite). They do flick the tongue a lot, but the tongue isn't sticky enough to be snagging aspen. They use the tongue to get rid of shavings that get into the mouth. Maybe you have a special skink who likes the taste of aspen?

What kind of aspen are you using (shaved flakes, little splinter-pieces, big chunks)? How much are you finding in his poop (trace amounts, a few pieces, lots, full of aspen)? When he eats, does he grab a mouthful and run off to eat it? Mine do that sometimes.

[auristi]

I'm going to do a good dissection of his next poo to figure out if I'm just seeing poo covered aspen and freaking out or actual chunks of it.

I am using shaved flakes, and seeing a piece or two each poop (will clarify more with his next one, maybe include a pic .. Yum)
He doesn't seem to drag his food off he sits and eats there and it's on a raised platform plus plate.

[James Wilson]

I posted this information on another thread, but I think it will be of more value here.

I have come across BTS in the past that were impacted with substrate. Some old timers here might remember Lissa (the "white" Northern I had at one time). When I got Lissa as a 6 month old juvi, she was totally packed with the crushed walnut reptile bedding. She would not move, and she would not (or more likely could not eat). I had no idea what was wrong with her, but after her first poop, it was quite obvious what was wrong. Her poop consisted of approximately 90% crushed walnut bedding with the remaining 10% being actual poop that served as a binding agent for the crushed walnuts. The percentage of walnut bedding became less and less with each passing poop until after a couple weeks, she was all cleaned out with no more pieces of walnut bedding showing up in her poop. I was really surprised it did not kill her, and looking back, I think it came pretty close.

Up until that time I had never really seen anything like that. However, since then I have come across a few skinks that seemed to relish eating substrate when given the opportunity. At one time I occasionally used aspen bedding for my skinks, but I later stopped because of the dangers the sharp splinters posed to the skinks. However, a few years later a special situation came up that led me to try aspen once again (this time in the form of aspen shavings). I thought it would be a good idea to use with my gravid female so she could have some “nesting" materials, and so that the babies could have a place to hide if they were born when I was not home. It turned out I was home, so no worries there. That being said, the mother ended up eating lots of the shavings. I did not notice until I removed the shavings when I was switching her back to her regular turf. While digging through all of the shavings I noticed her feces were filled with chunks of aspen. A couple days after switching her back to turf, she made a really big poop that was filled with large pieces of aspen. She later made another nice poop, and there were still some aspen shavings in there (see photo below). As a result of this, I would definitely recommend using caution when using aspen shavings as a substrate for BTS, and I ended up giving my large sack of aspen to a local reptile rescue.

Substrate
There are many different opinions on the subject of substrate. I have personally tried many of them myself, and I have found that there is no perfect substrate. However, I have found newspaper (for quarantine and medical situations), Care-fresh, and artificial-turf have all proven to be effective substrates for me. Cypress mulch is also frequently used and recommended by many keepers. Aspen Bedding has been used by many hobbyists, but some forms contain long sharp slivers that can work their way into the skinks nostrils, eyes, or vent, causing serious injury. It is also hard to keep it out of the skinks food, and can cause very serious problems when ingested. I also avoid orchid bark for the same reasons and because of the possibility of respiratory and skin problems as a result from the red dust that it produces. Note: Never use cedar chips due to the toxic oils that they secrete. Sand is also not recommended, mainly because it is very hard to maintain. Blue-tongues can be very messy lizards, causing the sand to have a very unpleasant odor in a relatively short period of time, and it is just not practical to replace the sand as often as you will need to. Most people here know I use artificial turf, and it is definitely not perfect either. I just find it posses less risks for the skinks than other options.

[auristi]

Well I apparently have a crazy skink!! Just looked in his cage and he is happily hunting down aspen chips as if they were worms and gobbling them down. I'm going to switch substrate to cypress mulch and carpet and see if that changes anything.

:X little bugger!!!

[Fatal_S]

Good plan. Stupid skink.

[Spankenstyne]

I was about to chime in but James has already well addressed it. The short answer I would have given was that if you see him actually eating it then switch to something that isn't loose particulate. Go with some tiles and or something like repti-carpet with a few snug hides. I wouldn't go with the Cypress, the stuff we get up here is full of long spear-like slivers that potentially could do much more damage even than the Aspen will, especially if it's actively eating the substrate. I think the shredded Cypress they get in the US is ground a lot finer than what we get.

[auristi]

Ok! He does reallly love to burrow thought so I picked up some care fresh as I'm going to give him a small place he can burrow. Other than that I'll be pitting in some tiles and repti-carpet. Probably trying them out one at a time to see which he prefers. Hopefully he keeps his same bathroom area so I can just pick the tile up and clean it. We shall see!

Thanks for the replies! I honestly thought I was over reactig till I saw him eating it.

[Spankenstyne]

Just make sure he doesn't eat the carefresh too lol. Crazy skink.
One thing I love about the tiles is how easy they are to clean. Quick trip to the sink with some soap & hot water and it's good to go. That said it also doesn't absorb any of the waste which can be good and bad, the bad part of that is that it might end up tracked all over the cage if Kahless decides to redecorate and "paint" the place.

Kahless wasn't on substrate while here with the rest of the litter, I had them on paper towel with some tile and used open large 9" wide deli cups filled with moss for hide areas which they loved to bury themselves into. Normally I use sphagnum with any mossy hides but since the babies seem to be constantly relieving themselves I just used forest moss & tossed it out every few days when it got dirty. You can get it pretty cheap in huge bags at the Golden Acre garden center up Goddard ave NE (just off Mcknight & Edmonton trail).

[El Lobo]

There is another product you might consider as substrate; a Canadian product Woody Pet - Pet Litter.

http://www.woodypet.com/pets.html

I have been using an Australian equivalent successfully for a few years with no problem. It is compressed sawdust formed into a pellet which is loose enough for skinks to burrow into but also firm enough to support their weigh at the surface. In my opinion the risk of impaction is all but non-existent as when the pellet is exposed to liquid it immediately breaks back down into sawdust, so no large particles. It was popular amongst members here a few years ago. It also has the advantage of being an excellent absorbent of liquid which means all urine is absorbed and does not pool on the floor of the enclosure, unlike substrates such as Repti Bark.

[auristi]

I will look into that as it seems he will be trying to/excelling at eating anything loose in the cage, i had my bf looking after him while I was setting up the new cage and kahless attempted to eat a postit note AND a blanket embellishment. Should I go back to feeding him every day?

[Spankenstyne]

Haha yeah, sounds like the little bugger is hungry. Just keep an eye on his weight & how he looks.

[auristi]

hes a chunker already! looks fatter than other two month pics I have seen on here .. I am just letting him get settled in and then I will post some updated pics of him .. hes kinda like *I like cookies :-) right now

[auristi]

ok well first off I like cookies should have been more like what the fudge .. AND

the best part about this whole "hey im going to eat anything I feel looks yummy" is that he has learn't his veggies and spits them back out after tasting them!!! It's a good thing hes a cutie pants!

[Bluish]

Haha yeah, sounds like the little bugger is hungry. Just keep an eye on his weight & how he looks.

Sounds logical, but...
I acquired a young Northern just over a week ago and have fed it twice. I didn't bother examining it's first stool but the second one had many small bark chips in it, the same substrate as the previous owner was using.
Yesterday I fed her a large meal. Today I offered banana, which she refused so I know she isn't hungry.
This afternoon I see her chomping on small pieces of the aspen shavings . Maybe they're looking for roughage.
I've heard of them ingesting stones in the wild, presumably to help aid digestion.