what kind of BTS is this

[jpwickham10101]

just trying to figure out what species this is

[supersnakeman101]

that is a northern blue tongue skink

[Linnea]

a very pretty little northern

[James Wilson]

It looks very easternish to me. It could be an intergrade.

[Richard.C]

looks 80 percent northern,20 percent missing tail,lol

james if an intergrade would it more likely be with ij

with intergrades,sometimes its hard to know with some babies,thats the pain of not knowing history

[Spindown]

well, I know what it *doesnt* look like, but I'm not an expert like the two above me, so I'll just say EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! Soooooooooo cuuuuuute!!!!!! I love baby reptiles!!

[James Wilson]

looks 80 percent northern,20 percent missing tail,lol

james if an intergrade would it more likely be with ij

with intergrades,sometimes its hard to know with some babies,thats the pain of not knowing history

I personally do not see any IJ there. It could be a Northern, but I have also seen Easterns that look very similar as well. It could be an intergrade or just come from stock that was found in the intergrade zone. I definitely think it is at least a pure scincoides on a species level. I just do not know with certainty where it stands subspecifically (on a subspecies level). As Richard mentioned, we can only speculate since we do not know the actual history of this specimen. That being said, it is truly a stunningly beautiful specimen, and I really like it!

[Jeff]

My level of expertise falls WAY below both James and Richard, but in my opinion, that looks like a northern to me. I have spent the last few years studying as many skinks as possible, both in person and in pictures. I just don't see any off the typical clues that indicate an eastern influence in this one. Maybe James will be generous enough to describe his reasons for suspicions.

[James Wilson]

Well, the photo is a bit tricky, but the bands do look like they continue from the sides on over the back. There also seams to be a little more eye banding than is usually seen on Northerns. Once again, this is pure speculation on my part. Unfortunately the tail is not complete, but the tail that does exist looks more Northern to me. This one could go either way, and because there is an intergrade zone where these animals come from in the wild, and because we are not always 100% sure about the origens of everything we have here, we occasionally see specimens that look like they could go either way. Again, I am very comfortable refering to it as Tiliqua scincoides. It could very well be a Northern. Maybe just one of those easternish Northerns that we see every now and then.

[Jeff]

Ok, that is very comforting to me because I DO see those things, and I am also very comfortable calling this skink T.scincoides.

As far as the eyebanding goes though, I think that is most likely due to lighting. I have been shocked on more than one occassion that pictures I have taken of my own northerns (especially babies) make the skink look like they have eyebands, when in reality, the skink has no eyeband whatsoever.

I hope it is very clear that I am not arguing with James' accessment at all. It's just that I am about 20 years behind him in my bts education, and I am trying to learn as much as possible. I am grateful for every bit of knowledge/experience that he is willing to share.

[Jeff]

looks 80 percent northern,20 percent missing tail,lol

james if an intergrade would it more likely be with ij

with intergrades,sometimes its hard to know with some babies,thats the pain of not knowing history

Lol! Richard, you are correct. northern x IJ crosses are much more common than northern x eastern crosses in the U.S. That is mainly because there are almost no easterns here! The few easterns that are being bred are in the hands of a very few people that realize that they are different than northerns. I'm sure that once in awhile a knucklehead will breed a northern to an eastern, but it is probably extremely rare in the U.S. right now.

This skink really doesn't show any signs of Irian Jaya though. I agree with James that if it is not pure T.s.intermedia, it is because of a T.s.scincoides influence.

[James Wilson]

Ok, that is very comforting to me because I DO see those things, and I am also very comfortable calling this skink T.scincoides.

As far as the eyebanding goes though, I think that is most likely due to lighting. I have been shocked on more than one occassion that pictures I have taken of my own northerns (especially babies) make the skink look like they have eyebands, when in reality, the skink has no eyeband whatsoever.

I hope it is very clear that I am not arguing with James' accessment at all. It's just that I am about 20 years behind him in my bts education, and I am trying to learn as much as possible. I am grateful for every bit of knowledge/experience that he is willing to share.

Jeff, you can disagree with me anytime. I have great respect for your opinions and observations, and what you are saying is all true. In addition, some Northerns do actually have faint eyebands. In short, it could be a Northern. And if it is, it is just not a text book Northern, and that is to be expected from time to time.

[Richard.C]

yep sometimes in pics northerns apear to have eye banding,faintly,i didnt mean to say it looks ij ish,just with out of oz crossesij crosses would be more common than eastern crosses being way more available

the banding does look odd like james mentioned,looks consistant in color right across ,portholes and all,and lacks the black of the classic northern,there seems to be a few about like that though,plus in pic looks milky,like its due for a shed soon

jeff ive only had northerns for a few years,not overly experienced with them,but over here there quite variable,even with out adding the kimberley forms,out of aus they appear variable to,but classic ones seem the most common

eastern wise,ive only had experience with southern forms ,from sydney south,they are quite variable,especially north of sydney,i have seen some north qld easterns in a petshop here,from intergrade zone,western qld,and they had a resemblance to northerns,but clean banding right through like this pic shows,so can see where james sees eastern there,be a good one to watch to see how it develops into adulthood

i still think northern,but who knows for sure