hypo / melanistic / patternless / axanthic / caramel albinos

[scaredofbees]

Since there was a discussion about BSR's albino BTSs the other day, I thought I'd see if anyone knew anything about these:

http://roussisreptiles.com/collection/b ... ue-skinks/

[AnnaMonroe]

I just fell in love with the axanthic one. So beautiful!! Wish there were more like those around, I could stare for hours!

[Jeff]

I actually know Steve. My opinion is that he is a great guy who is able to purchase amazing animals because he has done such incredible work with ball pythons. He is a snake guy first, which is why it is such a pleasant surprise that he is so cool. I have not known him for a really long time, but I consider him a friend that has every intention of doing the right thing with all of his animals. His skinks are ridiculous! What else would you like to know? Lol.

[Lea]

Sorry, but I disagree with his idea of classification! The hypo, well, shows classic albino characteristics and how can a caramel, containing the black pigment, be albino???

If an animal such as his "hypo" exist, lacking all colour, then this would surely be an example of a true albino?! But even in this picture, the eyes are dark, suggesting some of the melanin pigmentation.

It looks like a good example of how to make things fit and appear you are selling something unique under an inappropriate heading. Money making venture ... I'd be inclined to think so, no matter how pleasant and cool the seller might be.

[Jeff]

I guess I don't see why the "classification" makes much difference. He posts PICTURES! You can see what the skinks are! I have had conversations with him about what he has labeled things. He openly admits that he doesn't know exactly what the best name is for some stuff. Is that dishonest? Some of this stuff doesn't clearly fit into any "category". Again, look at the PICTURES. Call them whatever you want. When pictures are posted, they are not being misrepresented. They will not sell for more money because they have one name or another. Sorry, I just feel like he is being accused of intentionally misleading people when he is not.

[Jeff]

Also, none of these animals are even for sale. Trust me. I have asked!

[Bird_Brain]

Sorry, but I disagree with his idea of classification! The hypo, well, shows classic albino characteristics and how can a caramel, containing the black pigment, be albino???

If an animal such as his "hypo" exist, lacking all colour, then this would surely be an example of a true albino?! But even in this picture, the eyes are dark, suggesting some of the melanin pigmentation.

It looks like a good example of how to make things fit and appear you are selling something unique under an inappropriate heading. Money making venture ... I'd be inclined to think so, no matter how pleasant and cool the seller might be.

There really is much more than just lacking black pigment to be an albino. As Jeff mentioned in another thread, there are several types of albinism. The Carmel for example is what they call a T+ albino. This is about the best explanation for me to understand:

The Caramel Albinos "AKA" Xanthics "AKA" T-Positive Albinos are one of the most beautiful ball python mutations. They are albinos........they have red eyes....and lack dark pigments. But they are a different type of albino.......when we think of albino.......we think of yellow and white with pink eyes.

The Caramels are ( T positive )........and the regular yellow and white albinos are ( T-negative )........the "T" stands for "Tyrosinase"........Tyrosinase is the enzyme essential in synthesis of melanin ( darker pigments )..........so an Albino that is ( T-negative ) will only be yellow and white because it "lacks" tyrosinase.......and a Albino that is ( T-positive ) will still be albino.......but will have darker pigments because it's tyrosinase enzyme is functional.

Real simply put........a T-negative's enzyme is turned off...........and a T-positive's enzyme is turned on.........one can produce darker pigment.........and one can not...........so there you have it..........two different types of Albinos.

[scaredofbees]

Simple solution... instead of calling something hypoleucisticmelanobino T+... post the picture (as this guy did) and say "White Skink, with normal colored eyes"... or do what they do with designer geckos and pythons and call it a Yeti Blue Tongue.

[Richard.C]

caramel hypo looks like i think brunos northern ij crosses with the patternless look

the albinos are what the ones on the other thread would be like if from indo,also note normal appearong next ti it,probably a het sibling

the black bugger is an eastern,the white im not sure,but theres a line of northerns in australia being bred with that exact look,not saying its northern though,lea they are a hypo line,are bred by a few guys in aus and are crackers,also i believe easterns to,pieces if you read this might correct me if im wrong but i believe he has hypo easterns,plus many other eastern morphs,crackers to

jeff,over here,probably the same there to,alot of snakeys have gotten into blueys to,but morph blueys,not so much the normals

but its great to see regardless,as more work with them,what we see is amazing,some fuggly,but lots of amazing animals

i just hope that the jag thing doesnt happen,let alone ball x bloodpythons ect,but its bound to,freaky seems to be all the rage

alot of folk are into them because they are morphs,doesnt matter the species,its the colors,which is fine to

good find guys

[AnnaMonroe]

I still wish I could jump in the screen and steal the axanthic one!!!
How did that happen! He's sooooo beautiful.

[Kurt]

Those are great skinks! I know that morphs are controversial in the BTS world, but I love these guys! I think everyone here agrees that what has happened to the leos and balls would be bad for bts, but I hope some of these "hypos" and "albionos" and "melanistic" skinks (or whatever you want to call them) become a little more available for regular bts keepers like myself. I just hope the right breeders can get ahold of skinks like this and don't do it for the money...

Jeff: You say they are not for sale, but he must breed them right?

On another note... I'm definitely NOT a snake guy, but this is the coolest snake I've ever seen! http://roussisreptiles.com/our_collecti ... c-piebald/

[Richard.C]

id say hes trying to breed those traits,so wont be any for sale till he has sucess,probably over a few seasons

most dont have probs with morphs of species,its more when different species are crossed in the process of making something different

morphs are about the money,hence skyrocketed prices and the term investment animals,nothing wrong with that,theres obviously a market for it,its when market dies and prices drop that they start being crossed with anything with 4 legs in the hope of creating the next fad,that part i dont like,and cant believe folk fork over bundles of cash for,but end of the day,each to there own i guess

[pisces20]

Hi All,
Your damned if you do your damned if you dont. Isnt the best way to protect the wild animals by breeding pets,for the pet trade. When we produce unusual colours or morphs all we are doing is breeding together genetic traits that are naturally occuring. the only difference is that in the wild the chances of these specific pairings happening are very rare, so is winning the lottery, but people do.Natural selection most often weeds them out, however if Australia was covered in a white environment then the leucis would be as common as the normals are now. Just from my projects and sales, no one here wants the w/c animals. Remember we find them in our back yards almost daily in summer. I still cant see why BTS have this conservation stigma attached to them, I dont see people wanting to return cats and dogs back to the wild. Be under no illusion once you take an animal out of its population you invariably change that population forever. You cant re introduce them some time later as you will cause suffering for those that have filed the niche. I have found as have others many of the morphs naturally, they are not some chemically altered demon.I have been working on some lines for fifteen years such as the Leuci, and axanthics, with each generation taking from 18 months to 4 years, if they breed and you have the right mix of male to female. I love my plain 26 year old female as much as the caramels,leucis,hypers, hypos and everything in between.

[AnnaMonroe]

Soooooo... there is no way to just go and buy an Axanthic?
Don't mind me, I am just totally obsessed with it after I saw the picture of it on the website lol;

[scaredofbees]

I've seen axanthics for sale before, especially from European breeders. If I recall they were 1200 EURO a pair. I'm sure someone else could point you in the right direction. Be careful though, as some indos look axanthic right before they shed.

[Jeff]

Axanthic indos are not really that rare. They seem to be imported in cycles. You might not see one for a year and a half, but then there will be 3 people offering them at the same time. Like Scaredofbees said, you have to be careful because many skinks that look axanthic in pictures are not at all. I would probably not buy one on line unless it was from someone I trusted.

[AnnaMonroe]

LOL thanks for all the information, you guys!
As much as they look cool and all, I'm only looking forward to being an IJ owner.
They're my favorite

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

I know a guy who breeds axanthics

[AnnaMonroe]

Now I want an axanthic IJ. Lmao who wants to make my dreams come true? Any takers?

http://seikereptiles.com/seikereptiles/anery%20ijs.htm