Bluey Won't Relax?

[finns]

I've been a reptile keeper for a while, and have other reptiles/amphibians. In the past few months I've been involved in reptile rescue work, fostering animals, and then finally taking animals into my own home. I had a bad experience with a pet store while getting my first blue tongue. It refused to eat and soon died. I later realized that it was far too skinny for a baby. Not only that, but two other species of skink I had gotten from them around the same time all died. I believe these animals to have been wild caught and ordered in, which would explain their lack of health. This store allowed no refunds for any reason (without telling me so or putting it in writing), and though they're on of the only reptile specialty store here that do breed some of their own stock, I refuse to buy from them. I've gone to every other pet store within thirty miles in order to find one that did care for their animals properly, and bred most of them themselves. Now I have a bit of a personal vendetta against stores, and especially because many of the animals I care for have been rescued after stupid people bought from said awful stores.

Anyway, now I have a grand total of over 30 reptiles and amphibians. I later bought my Spud pictured below from the one pet store I did like, and have found him to be an absolute pleasure. He loves to eat, and while very huffy and irritable the first month and a half, he eventually calmed down to the point where it is easy for me to take him out and let him explore. We had some defecation and stress pee problems at first, but they've completely settled down. The length of time that it took to tame him is in part due to the fact that a friend of mine was holding him and he defecated with a rather loud squelch on her and she basically launched him about two feet. He was fine, luckily, and that friend does not touch him anymore, but it did make him less likely to trust me. I find it a lucky thing that the store I got him from makes a point to have their employees handle all their reptiles frequently. Because of this, I've never had any problems from any reptile I've gotten from them. Spud is a good 13 inches now, and still a few months short of a year old.

Now, for the rescue. This guy was found at a Petsmart that I went into for some emergency UVB bulbs. Not my first choice, but the other store is somewhat far away. I looked at their reptiles to see how they were, and nearly every one had a serious problem with them. It's not uncommon to see serious burns on reptiles and amphibians from lamps at places like Petsmart and Petco. The dark bluey pictured below was skinny, only fed mealworms, had undigested "feces" everywhere, and had very bad shed problems. And this was one of the better looking animals that they had. Can you imagine? I took him home about 3 months ago. I mostly left him alone fr the first month until he had normal poops, good sheds, and all around looked better. He's about 15 inches now, and named Aubergine. I do not actually know either of their sexes, of course. I started trying to handle him and try about every other day. I give him baths, gave him a towel with my smell, I make sure to put my hand near him as I feed or water him to see if he'll recognize that I'm the foodgiver (Spud knows this, and rushes to his dish as soon as my hand comes down). He just hasn't made any progress.

Is this the difference that handling skinks as a baby makes? This guy still pees himself silly every time I try to pick him up. I can't even let him run around the room without having towels down. All he does is runs away and hides. He's twitchy, huffs, and is just so scared of me. I'm going to keep trying to work with him, but I haven't made any progress since day one. He still tries to make like he's going to bite me. He's incredibly strong, and it takes a lot of effort to keep from dropping him as he tries to squirm out of my hands when I move him. I try to sit with him in a smaller space and get him to just get used to me being there, but it just doesn't seem to work. I'm at a complete loss. I've never had a problem with taming down a reptile. Geckos, beardies, desert iguanas, snakes, whatever. Can anyone offer me any advice on how to approach this guy? I'm not willing to give up, because I need to be able to handle him in case anything happens to him. A tame animal will be an animal that is easier to treat when injured. Also, I have no idea how to identify his locale.

[Fatal_S]

I see your problem. You got yourself an Indonesian there. WC Indos are notoriously freaked out by humans. They can calm down, but it will take a lot of time and patience. Don't expect him to be as tame as your IJ. He will always be shy, skittish and prone to lashing out. But they do realize that you're not out to hurt them, and they will relax and even come to be curious about you. How long will it take? Depends on the skink.

Sorry, short reply, I'm not at my best today. Best of luck though! Beautiful skinks Welcome to the forum.

I'll add this: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20375 Hope it helps.

[LarissaLurid]

It definitely is important to hold them as babies, or else they will become more scared of humans as time goes on. I'd recommend sitting in front of the tank and talking to him every day and when you are at the point where you can put your hand in (without trying to pet him) and just have it there without him running to hide while you sit and talk to him then I'd do that for a while, then move on to trying to pet him slightly without picking him up and do these things very often. The more you are in their presence showing you aren't a threat the better. Another thing you can do is sit in your bathtub and put him in it with you, don't try to touch him at all, just sit there and let him walk around on you to see you aren't going to hurt him. Hand feeding can gain their trust as well if they are not one who tries to nip (which most never do). In time he will calm down more and stop peeing a lot. Mine never showed aggression or trying to run away, but as soon as I would pick him up when he was little he would pee, but not really struggle or whip around. This didn't last long once he started to trust me. Also if you sit in your bathroom on the floor and let him explore in there you won't have to worry about towels everywhere (well unless you happen to have wood floors in your bathroom) or him hiding anywhere. Just sitting and talking without trying to grab him and having you there is good. He will get to explore and exercise while getting more used to you and eventually crawl on you while exploring. I still wouldn't go to touch him while he is first coming up to you on his own or not running away when you are close because he may think you are going to hurt him. It just takes a lot of patience and time spent with them. :]

[Richard.C]

It isnt nessacary to hold them to tame them,they can tame up well with out being handled,they just need time to learn u arent a threat,sometimes just leaving them be is the best medicine for that

Your guy is well beyond baby size,more than likely a wild caught,with the stresses they go through with being caught,held in confined spaces with others before enough are collected to thrn be shipped over seas to the pet trade which can be an added stress in itself,they go through alot before finding good homes,so need time and patience to learn to trust there keeper,some may be shy even when they get used to u,but alot calm down to,main thing is give it time to build its trust,they usually get used to u fast and learn you are not a threat to them

Its a nice looking animal,looks in good shape,be patient and theres no reason u wont have a long lived friendly bluey in your care

[Linnea]

As an add on to what the others said.....if you bring your skink outside the terrarium, instead of just holding it, offering hide in the shape of a large pocket can help, if the skink is calm enough to take in its surroundings. from there, it can sleep, take a peek at the outside world or just de-stress a little.
it can of course be counter-productive if the skink is already taming down a little, but it might be worth a try if your Indo isnt likely to feel secure outside the tank.

the other option is of course to not take the skink out at all, and let him live safely in his home for most part. it is just as fine to have a skink that feels secure enough to show himself, eat well and such around you.

some skinks have better days, and once settled in they tend to show which days that are, by being out running around the tank after basking, or the like.

id say, avoid trying to tame before shedding. although im not speaking from taming experience, they are a lot more easily stressed those days, and a lot more annoyed even if theyre angelic otherwise.

[finns]

Thank you all for the answers. I was determined to sit down with him today in the bathroom and just tough it out with him, but I was too tired from volunteering all day. But tomorrow after work I will definitely work on it again. I'll probably give the guy a short soak to get him to poo, then let him go crazy, since our bathroom is pretty small. I'll just sit on the floor and read for a few hours.

Another question. Is there any possibility of telling me possible sexes based on head shape, since they have grown quite a bit? I haven't been keeping an eye out for sperm plugs at all, and it may be early, but I did have a leopard gecko just prove himself to be male from being a little less than four months old. Already putting plugs all over the place! I've experienced a lot of herps maturing much earlier than the average, so I figure it's not impossible that I would be able to tell. They have a habit of smearing their poop across the aspen right after, so I can never get any chunks of poo. It's hard enough just to find where they did it.

Let me know if I need more pictures. Those ones aren't the best ones. I'm sure that I can get more of a full body shot.

Also, I've had skink fever since I was fourteen and am very glad that I finally have them. I think I need about twenty more of these guys. What's the harm? I already have about 15 each of geckos and snakes. Also, does anybody cook their own meat for their skinks? I feed mine soft all chicken or turkey dog food with their greens, which they chow down instantly. My girlfriend and I are vegetarian, and the smell of cooked meat nauseates me (I can't digest it), but if it would be a better option, then I would do it for them.

[Katrina]

Thank you all for the answers. I was determined to sit down with him today in the bathroom and just tough it out with him, but I was too tired from volunteering all day. But tomorrow after work I will definitely work on it again. I'll probably give the guy a short soak to get him to poo, then let him go crazy, since our bathroom is pretty small. I'll just sit on the floor and read for a few hours.

I wouldn't "tough it out" with him, that would be incredibly stressful for him. Your best bet is patience and lots of time. Just leave him in the enclosure, let him feel safe, and slowly let him start getting used to you. Keeping him trapped in a bathroom with you, without anywhere to hide or thermoregulate isn't a good idea - it would be very stressful for him.

Have you read through this? viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20375

I've had best luck with leaving them alone and letting them get curious and come out of their hides. Slowly, after weeks or months, they stop running away when you enter the room. Then you can try to hand feed a treat or something... but I try to always keep the stress to a minimum and let them feel safe.

You can't sex from head size reliably, but if you can get top-down photos that show the full body, head and tail that might be enough to give us an idea. Not all BTS can be visually sexed though. Good luck!

[finns]

I did read that topic. Our bathroom is a consistent 80 degrees, warm enough that thermoregulation will not be needed for a few hours. I've moved enough reptiles around in very different weather to know that it will be fine. There will be a bunched towel on the floor for him to go into to hide. His habitat is in my room, which means he does frequently experience me talking. He comes out to look at me, and pokes his head up to see when I open it up, but he's still scared. I wouldn't continue with the plan if he was very resistant to it and did not relax at all. By small, I don't mean closet sized. But it's not the size of a full room. It's big enough that he can get away from me. Personally, I believe that this is the best choice right now. I didn't tame any animal - be it bird, dog, cat, or reptile, by letting it continuously run away from me. And I've cared for quite a few wild animals, as well as rehabilitating very abused ones. I want it to tolerate my presence. I'm not going to handle it, say anything, move around, or do anything but simply sit there and click a button on my kindle. It's sort of tough love, but I'm just going to be there. Honestly, 3 months and still trying to bite me is no good at all, considering I've been trying the kind of way that you stated for 2 months consistently. No progress, so I feel that it is in the best interest of the bluey for it to happen this way. If it seems to be detrimental, I will let him go back home immediately. I don't need him to be a lap pet, or to ever come up to me to get out of his cage like Spud does. I don't ever expect that from reptiles. But, as I said, he does need to be able to relax enough that he doesn't try and bite me or thrash out of my hands when I need to move him. Those things will hurt him if I drop him, if a vet drops him, and not allow me to be able to treat him medically when needed. That's my only goal. I have no expectations for more.

Therefore, I believe it to be the best course of action and I will do it.

[Katrina]

Good luck! It sounded like you were looking for a lap pet kind of thing, which is why I answered the way I did.

[finns]

I didn't mean handling in any way in the first topic other than being picked up and moved around. Handling with reptiles doesn't mean petting to me. Sorry if that was confusing. No, I am very much aware of the relationship between human and reptile being not touchy feely. The most touchy feely animals I have are a desert iguana that prefers to sit on my head over anywhere else, and a fat bearded dragon that likes to cuddle because it's warm. I wasn't about to take it to the bathroom and try and make it play pattycake with me, haha. But considering my experience with rehabilitating reptiles and training other animals, I do find his behavior especially concerning, even giving the fact that he is a reptile. It makes me think that he was treated in the pet store worse than I thought. I've actually found it pretty common that pet workers in chain stores that like dogs but hate reptiles tend to scare them or even throw them around a bit simply because they know nothing and don't care to learn. This is much worse than simply never touching them. If you don't know how to touch or be around an animal, leave it alone at the very least!

But being wild-caught definitely explains a lot of the mannerisms to me. There's a different way to treat that entirely, and that is simply exposure. My desert iguana was wild caught, but he's the sweetest and most intelligent reptile that I have ever owned. The type that follows after me and absolutely has to be climbing up me at all times. He's the weirdest thing I've ever encountered, but his exposure to people has simply been me letting him out in a room to while I sat on the computer or some such thing. I think one of the biggest things in animal taming of any species is simply being there. I don't treat street dogs by intriguing them with a toy. I sit there in the kennel and wait. That's the approach I want to take now that I've gotten some opinions from bluey fanatics.

Though as much as I don't need them as a toy, I do especially find blue tongues to be the cutest reptiles ever, even when they're angry or frightened of me.

[Fatal_S]

While I agree that exposure to you is a key, I don't think taking him from the tank is the way to go. That original stress and the stress of being returned is going to overpower any positive effect that your exposure might have. Imagine absolute terror, then realizing you're alive, then absolute terror again. That kind of stress doesn't just disappear, especially in a strange environment.

Personally, I would spend my exposure near the tank. If it's a front-openning tank, open it, and let the skink come and go as it pleases (with your right there watching). That way it still has it's security blanket (the tank) and no major handling stressor.

It can be done your way. It's more of the tough-love method. But it's definitely not as gentle on the skink. And when it comes to WC skinks, stress can kill.

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

http://www.youtube.com/user/MDFMONITOR

[Richard.C]

Totally agree with fatals,

Especially being recently aquired,first step is getting it used to its new home,then you can work on building a relationship with it,because when newly aquired,especially a wild caught imported adult, thats when there stress levels are at there highest,stresing it more is the last thing they need

If they need to be handled,even agro ones are easily restrained, a good vet will be used to handling more menacing reptiles than a bluey,if you arent comfy handling it if it needs vet trearment,u could make a hide box that u can close up when it enters and remove box to take to vet,lots of ways to do it actually

Taming takes time,not something u can rush or force apon an already scared animal