Calcium and D3

[Bassman]

Hey guys. My name is Evan and I just joined the forum. I'm hoping to pick up a baby Irian Jaya or a Northern at the expo this coming weekend and I wanted to ask a couple of questions. I feel like this topic has kind of been beaten over the head but, from some of the posts I read here, it sounds like a lot of you guys just use a calcium and D3 supplement instead of a UVB bulb.

How often do I need to supplement with calcium and D3? Do I need to get a plain, old, vanilla calcium supplement, too? Should I get a UVB bulb anyway? I plan on taking him outside during the summer while I can, once he has settled in.

I've never had a lizard before so this whole UV and D3 thing confuses me. The only thing I really do know is that UVA isn't enough. And if any of you guys know any sites I can look at that will get me some more information that would be fantastic.

[neurotic88]

Hi Evan, and welcome.

I will re post this since it seems to be posted when ever this question is raised, I will tell you I personally do both UVB and supplement, as far as how often, I do it every 2-3 meals.

Cheers!


"I don't want to get into another UVB debate, but I will do my best to convey the results of a fairly long term study done by one extremely respected person in the BTS community. This breeder kept one group of skinks (#1) away from any UVB exposure and supplemented their diet with calcium that included D3. Another group (#2) was kept with UVB lighting, but given calcium that did not include vitaminD3. The third group (#3) was given both UVB lighting and calcium that included D3. The results were as follows: Group #1 - No health issues at all. Extremely healthy skinks that bred very well. Group #2 - Some of these skinks seemed normal, and others began developing the first signs of MBD. The breeding rates were much lower. Even the skinks that appeared healthy had smaller litters, and the babies were not as hardy. Group #3 - These skinks were all healthy and showed no signs of any health issues. They bred well with large healthy litters. This evidence is of course not ultimately conclusive, but it does support the theory that artificialUVB lighting may not be totally effective for the calcium needs of BTS. It is important to note that this study was done a number of years ago, before mercury vapor bulbs were available. The best bulbs available at the time were used, but they were not MVB. I don't know if that is very useful to you or not, but personally, I would supplement with a calcium that included D3 regardless of whether or not you provide UVB lighting."

[Richard.C]

yeah the above is a good post

with babies,supplement more as they are growing fast and need it,when they get of size u can mellow off the supplements to couple of times a week,generally adults dont need to eat every day like juvies so your half forced to cut back anyways,lol

[Katrina]

Welcome to the forum, Bassman! Good question for discussion, you've obviously researched lots on this subject.

There isn't any right or wrong way to do it, so unfortunately the best thing you can do is research (which you have done), ask questions (again, you've done) and then make an educated decision on what you want to do. I supplement Calcium + D3 probably 2-3 out of 5 feedings. More if they are juvenile and growing or gravid. I use a plain calcium, with no D3 maybe 1 in 5 feedings. For plain calcium I just wash and bake egg shells then throw them in the blender and make a powder. If you want to provide UVB that is great - I'd still supplement with Calcium + D3 at least 1-2 out of 5 feedings, just in case. That's just my personal opinion, but there are lots of different ways of doing it that have proven successful.

[WanderingChai]

I supplement with egg shells every feeding, but in small amounts. I put D3 every other feeding.

I also believe its very important to have natural sunlight(aka bringing your skink outside) when it's warm. Accourding to the care sheet, 1 hour of natural sunlight is equivalent to 10 hours of artificial UVB.

What ever you choose to do, I hope you have the best of luck!

[Bassman]

Sounds good. Now I know exactly what I'm looking for at the show.

I'll make sure to take full advantage of the sun while we have it. It never lasts long in Washington.

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

Hi Evan, and welcome.

I will re post this since it seems to be posted when ever this question is raised, I will tell you I personally do both UVB and supplement, as far as how often, I do it every 2-3 meals.

Cheers!


"I don't want to get into another UVB debate, but I will do my best to convey the results of a fairly long term study done by one extremely respected person in the BTS community. This breeder kept one group of skinks (#1) away from any UVB exposure and supplemented their diet with calcium that included D3. Another group (#2) was kept with UVB lighting, but given calcium that did not include vitaminD3. The third group (#3) was given both UVB lighting and calcium that included D3. The results were as follows: Group #1 - No health issues at all. Extremely healthy skinks that bred very well. Group #2 - Some of these skinks seemed normal, and others began developing the first signs of MBD. The breeding rates were much lower. Even the skinks that appeared healthy had smaller litters, and the babies were not as hardy. Group #3 - These skinks were all healthy and showed no signs of any health issues. They bred well with large healthy litters. This evidence is of course not ultimately conclusive, but it does support the theory that artificialUVB lighting may not be totally effective for the calcium needs of BTS. It is important to note that this study was done a number of years ago, before mercury vapor bulbs were available. The best bulbs available at the time were used, but they were not MVB. I don't know if that is very useful to you or not, but personally, I would supplement with a calcium that included D3 regardless of whether or not you provide UVB lighting."

Who are you quoting this from?

[bella3]

Since I have asked this questions probably around three times now ( ) all I can say is that there are probably a few previous helpful threads on this topic if you just search it (I would add the links, but I dont know how ). Don't worry, like I said I really needed a lot of clarification when it came to this.

[Bassman]

Yeah, I made sure to search the site and followed some of the links on the care sheet before I asked. I didn't want to sound like an idiot. Just wanted some specifics. All of your help is greatly appreciated.

[bella3]

No worries, and don't worry about sounding silly because everyone has to learn sometime

[Alioop]

Hi Evan, and welcome.

I will re post this since it seems to be posted when ever this question is raised, I will tell you I personally do both UVB and supplement, as far as how often, I do it every 2-3 meals.

Cheers!


"I don't want to get into another UVB debate, but I will do my best to convey the results of a fairly long term study done by one extremely respected person in the BTS community. This breeder kept one group of skinks (#1) away from any UVB exposure and supplemented their diet with calcium that included D3. Another group (#2) was kept with UVB lighting, but given calcium that did not include vitaminD3. The third group (#3) was given both UVB lighting and calcium that included D3. The results were as follows: Group #1 - No health issues at all. Extremely healthy skinks that bred very well. Group #2 - Some of these skinks seemed normal, and others began developing the first signs of MBD. The breeding rates were much lower. Even the skinks that appeared healthy had smaller litters, and the babies were not as hardy. Group #3 - These skinks were all healthy and showed no signs of any health issues. They bred well with large healthy litters. This evidence is of course not ultimately conclusive, but it does support the theory that artificialUVB lighting may not be totally effective for the calcium needs of BTS. It is important to note that this study was done a number of years ago, before mercury vapor bulbs were available. The best bulbs available at the time were used, but they were not MVB. I don't know if that is very useful to you or not, but personally, I would supplement with a calcium that included D3 regardless of whether or not you provide UVB lighting."

Who are you quoting this from?

The above was written by Jeff. Neurotic, thats a great post to copy, Jeff gives great info but out of respect for our wise moderator, please credit the original author when re-posting other people's words!

[El Lobo]

Ahh ML, does this now mean the poacher is turning gamekeeper?

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

Ahh ML, does this now mean the poacher is turning gamekeeper?

I'm a hypocrite yes... But I am trying to become, "gamekeeper".
Nice metaphor by the way

[Richard.C]

they could have seen someone whom wasnt jeff post it,and not known whom the source was originally from,hence mentioning that it has been posted abit with similar questions lately

[Scotts1au]

I have had two blueys that had bone problems that may have been related to Ca deficiency. One was a rescue Eastern (that has never really come good) another was a baby Alpine Blotched that I purchased from a breeder, which as a slight sway back.

That being said, out of probably 40 or so that I've raised from babies to adults since 2007 none have shown any clinical signs of Ca deficiency. This is despite the fact that they grow fast. Normally 15 - 45 cm between Feb-September.

I don't use UV supplementation of any sort, however I do use Ca supplementation with D3 added at every meal. Some attention is paid to Ca ratios in food provided to avoid high P foods where possible, but I'm not obsessive about it - generally I avoid peas, other seeds etc. Invariably there is a fair amount of dog food involved, - loaf style food only.

One of the more important aspects I believe is provision of warmth for young animals as it seems to improve the efficiency of the digestive process. I believe that this naturally helps them absorb Ca from their diets.

[Bassman]

Loaf style dog food? I read a bunch of posts on how a lot of the more experience keepers here use dog food as a staple. It seems like Pedigree, Wellness and Alto were the most recommended. Do you mix extra vegetables with the dog food? I read that meat meals are more important than whole meats. Is there anything else I should look for? Will I be able to find them at any pet store? I go to a family owned one in Renton that has a great staff and there's always something new there.

I don't have much to do so I have been scouring the bluey forums for all the information I can find...

[Richard.C]

mixing veg in never hurts,i rarely do anymore though,but theres many ways to do things successfully,even with out using dog food,dog foods just a way easier way to do it i guess,best staple in a can so to speak

local supermarkets should stock a great variety,just read the ingrediants on the can i guess and choose one accordingly

[Spindown]

I personally use D3 sprinkled on every meal, but my guys are all adults so they get fed once a week. Like Bassman said, there are few sunbreaks in WA, although this summer sounds like its going to be rediculously hot for us, so ???
I feed Pedigree with beef, mixed in with mustard greens and butternut squash for my base, and then whatever bluey safe foods are on hand. Last week they got a great treat of mango and strawberry, many times get a bit of banana, sometimes its blueberries. I have to find more veggies i can give, but the fruit is in smalllll portions because its a treat. I have to eat more veggies before i can treat them with different veggies lol.

They are also being supplemented with Dubias that are fed on skink food, and more veggies and fruit. The roaches eat better than I do! I have also found a great source for snails, and I am about to start trying to breed the snails as a food source. However, you could use the zoo med "can o' snails" they go nuts for that too!

I've never had a MBD issue with this diet and amount of D3/calcium powder supplement, not even with the baby i raised up from 2 months old.'

I don't use UVB or take them outside much, since the weather is usually atrocious. I do take them out when i can though.