Could use some advice on options for this terrarium.

[JMiller24]

Update: As this has been an ongoing discussion, I have updated my questions in a post at the bottom of page 1 of this thread.

Hi all, I know I must seem like Captain 50 Questions on this board lately, but this is a large purchase for me and I am trying to make sure I get everything right before I drop this kind of money. I would take no offense if noone posted anything and let this thread drop after all the threads I've started the last couple months =)

Anyway, after days and hours of googling and emailing (thanks again for all the recommendations) I've finally decided to purchase the T-25 model from AnimalPlastics http://www.animalplastics.com/terrestrial/T25/T25.htm ((72L x 30D x 18H) for my almost 1 year old merauke.

The one in this picture seems to be a bit beat up (other pictures i've seen of the T-25s look freakin great), but it is the only one I could find that shows the size fairly well. Also I would be going with the sliding glass or acrylic doors instead of the hinged doors in this picture.

The 'stock model' of this cage comes with basically what u see in that picture as well as some air ventilation slots in the back. Other options are available at an additional price. Here is what they have listed on the first website I linked.

Door Locks $20.00
Flexwatt Belly Heat (11") $35.00

White Fluorescent Fixture $20.00

Set of 6 Cage Casters $45.00

Basking Shelf $40.00

8" Stand $50.00

Pop in, Pop Out Divider $35.00

8" Circle Screens $10.00
Used for 8" dome lights, buy as many as you need
20" Screen Cut Out $20.00

From reading on a snake forum, it also seems that AP customer service will also work with u to add things not listed that you might want.


Basically I want this thing to be ready to roll when I get it (other than assembly). I would prefer to do as little cutting or fixture adding as possible unless it is beneficial for my BTS to do so. So anyway, here are my thoughts so far, any advice would be greatly appreciated!

First of all I don't think I'll need the bellyheat, divider, cage locks, the casters, or the stand.

So that leaves

Basking Shelf
8 Inch Circle Screen
Fluorescent Fixtures
20 Inch

1. I'll start with the heating. Basically I was thinking of having an 8 inch circle screen cut into each side and using two heat lamps to heat the cage. My thinking is that because the cage is so large one heat lamp might not be enough. I emailed AP and asked them about this. They emailed back and said, basically, that while the cages do hold heat very well that having two might be a good idea because of the size of this particular model. They also said that if he (toothless the BTS) wasn't going to have access to the top of the cage they could install incandescent sockets in the ceiling for heat lights. So my questions are, what would you guys suggest here? Would there be a benefit to having the heat lights inside the cage as opposed to them going through screens at the top? ( I guess one benefit might be additional light from the heat lamp at night to see into the cage if the bulbs were placed on the inside?) Also, have any of you guys used a basking shelf, is it worth it?

2. Lighting. This is the one I'm really having trouble with. My entire experience with UV lighting consists of a Zilla Desert strip light that I bought from Petsmart for his current cage. They offer to install 18 inch fluorescent fixtures for 20$ each. I'm thinking that I would need at least 3 or 4 of those to light the entire cage. Is 18 inch the standard for these florescent lights? Do you guys think it would be cheaper to set up my own fixtures in this case (I have a helpful relative who is good at this kind of stuff.) Do any of you have any particular brand of UV lights that you know are suited for skinks? I want to make sure that unless he is purposely hiding during the day that he is getting enough UV. I do give him calcium/d3 but from what I've read and heard from my vet it seems like the lighting is also important.

3. As far as the 20 inch screen cut out. I think I'll go with that just because I am unsure of the effectiveness of the vents on the back and of how I am going to have the stand set up. I'm thinking that will make sure there is plenty of fresh air in there for him.

4. Glass or Acrylic doors? Any pros and cons you can think of. This one isn't really skink specific so I'll google it, but if anyone knows off hand it would be great.

5. Do you guys have any particular brand of thermometers/ hygrometer that you trust and recommend?

Sorry again all, I know this is a lot. Like I said above, this is just such a large purchase for me that I am really trying to make sure I get it right before I start. The reviews I've read on the AP cages (mostly from snake guys) have been very good, but as far as the options needed for a skink I am getting a bit overwhelmed.

Also I'd like to say that while money is an issue to an extent, I am more concerned for the health and living condition of my BTS.This is going to be a long term home for him, so I want to do it right the first time. He has a cage that fits him for now that he can stay in if I have to save up for some extra UV lights/lamps/ thermometers etc.

[Richard.C]

thats a great size enclosure,nice and roomy to,ive just set up 5 centralian blueys in a similar sized enclosure,i have attatched light holder inside to the roof,blueys being generally ground dwelling height isnt an issue there,mines 58 cm high so wanted basking light closer to the substrate

i prefer glass doors,easier to clean and dont scratch like various plastic types do over time,if your adding under floor heating as well as basking area u may get away with using one basking light,perhaps set up the underfloor heating away from the basking area to a milder heat level,and use it for over night warmth to,set at low 20,s celcius as your species is a more tropical occuring species,uv lighting isnt overly nessacary for tiliqua,diet and supplementation with calcium /vitamin d3 is way more important in my view,but uv wont hurt either

[JM96]

Sorry for being way off topic, but what kind of birds have you got?

[JMiller24]

First of all thank you for the advice Richard! I actually wanted to stay away from under the tank heating because I am finally used to heat lamps, but I appreciate the input. I'll definitely go with glass from your recommendation =) Your advice is much appreciated!

JM96 I found that pic on google images. So they aren't my birds =( Sorry I just wanted a pic that showed the size of the tank correctly.

[Richard.C]

no probs ,looking forward to seeing what you end up with

[joshtrout]

Pretty new here, but not new to Animal Plastics caging. They are Awesome. You will not be disappointed in their product. One thing I would mention though is, get glass sliders, not the acrylic. It scratches. I would think with a lizard you would have some problems with it. I myself have had nothing but problems with acrylic. But that's just my two cents.

[JMiller24]

Thanks Josh! I had been looking at AP for a few days now, but yesterday I decided to look for reviews on google to make sure they weren't some kind of junk dealer. I was super pumped when the pages (mostly snake forums) were overwhelmingly positive. I'm glad that there is a consensus on glass, makes the decision easy =) Thank you for your help!

Richard. I will definitely post pictures when I have it all set up!

[Richard.C]

cool,thanks for that

[Alioop]

You are probably going to end up having to experiment quite a bit with different bulb wattages before you get your temps where you want them. If I were you, I'd probably set up heat tape on the bottom, in addition to basking light(s), all attached to thermostats/dimmers. I wouldn't put one basking light at each end of your terrarium (it sounded like thats what you were planning?) you want a gradient with a cool side and a warm side, I'd put one basking light at the very end, a higher wattage- like 150, and the second light about a foot or so away, but I'd make that one a little lower, maybe 100 or 75 watt. If you do a strip of flexwatt heat tape you can also run it the long way for 3 or 4 feet and have that turned up just a little bit to help keep up the ambient temp. With two basking lights, or even if you only do one, I think 2 uvb bulbs would be plenty.

I've been looking into pvc/plastic cages recently too, so this thread is very interesting to me. Not to threadjack, but has anyone ever heard of/dealt with PVC Cages? http://www.pvccages.com/new/index.php They seem to have a lower price than most.

[Richard.C]

depending on back ground temps you could also have a basking spot up each end and the cool section be in the middle

[JMiller24]

Update:

I figured I'd make an update and edit my original post so people know what has been decided so far.

1. Definitely going with glass for the front doors.

2. Would like to go with 2 heat lamps. I believe two heat lamps should be able to heat up a basking spot and make sure the rest of the enclosure doesn't dip too low. Nothing against UTH heating, I am just more comfortable with heat lamps. I would also like to keep one end the hot end and the other the cool end. Makes it a bit easier on me. So my questions regarding heating are

A. How should do you guys think I should space them. (72" enclosure) I've been running the numbers and I'm thinking I should place the first lamp about 18 inches in and that would heat up the basking spot. The second would be somewhere between 40 - 48 inches in. I'm thinking this would create the gradient that Ali was talking about, but would also be close enough to the cool side to make sure it doesn't dip too low. Numbers aren't my thing, but I'm trying haha.

B. I have two options. AP will either cut out 2 8inch circle screens for the lamps on top, or they can install incandescent sockets on the inside. I've been googling and can't really see which is preferred by reptile keepers or any pros and cons.

C. What type of bulbs would you recommend for the heat? I have been using this http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/in ... ghting.php in my current setup because it makes him visible at night. What do you guys prefer? Do your blueys seem to bask more if you use a a regular heat lamp instead of the infrared?


3. Lighting. Personally I would be more comfortable having the UV lights as well as calcium supplements. From reading around that seems to be a safe bet. AP will install fixtures for 18 inch fluorescent tubes. I figure I'll have them install 3 and with the right spacing that should cover pretty much all of the enclosure. My questions then are.

A. What lights do you guys prefer? I've been looking around and it looks like the RepitSun 5.0 (Link at bottom at post) seems to be a pretty good light. Would it be better for a Merauke to have the desert Reptisun 10.0 or would the 5.0 be enough?

B. I am uncertain on the effectiveness of UV lights at different heights. I've read things that say anywhere between 18 and 12 inches high would be fine, but I'm not sure what to believe. What I do know is that this enclosure will be 18 inches high. Adding in substrate should probably but him somewhere between 14-16 inches from the light. The reptisun site says the 5.0 is effective at 12 inches from the reptile and that the 10.0 should be 20 inches from the reptile. That kind of puts me in no mans land. The 5.0 might not be enough and the 10.0 might be too much. I guess my question is, do you think a light like the 5.0 becomes completely ineffective around 15-16 inches or just less effective. I'm confused on this. What would you guys recommend? I also maybe could have them suspend the fixtures some.

C. Stupid question probably but the reptisuns should pretty much cover the actual viewing light also? Like, I wouldn't need extra lights to illuminate the tank. My understanding is that these pretty much simulate the sun for the reptile (obviously much less powerfully), but that should be enough to have a clear viewing of him also right?


4. Accessories. Just wondering what kind of hides, thermometers, hygrometers, etc you guys prefer. I will be doing research, but if you guys have any that you love I would definitely be interested in hearing it.


Thanks again for all the help so far. I feel like I'm getting close to getting a handle on this thing finally! Rest assured I am continuing to research and not just waiting on people to do all of the work for me. My real problem is that this is going to be a BTS enclosure and you guys are pretty much the BTS authorities of the internet haha.

Link to ReptiSun 5.0
Link to ReptiSun 10.0 http://tinyurl.com/6s8utd8http://tinyurl.com/89k9nrq

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

Best lighting here:
http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/Searc ... Search.y=0

[JMiller24]

Thanks monitor, that seems to be the consensus. People really like those reptisuns.

[Richard.C]

the uv tubes dont mimic the brightness of the sun,they mimic the uv output,basking lights mimic the brightness,i dont use uv lighting at all for my skinks,alot of folk believe the reflective scales of skinks actualy reflect alot of the uvb off them,not sure thats true,but believe a balanced diet is more important,and supplementation wit calcium/d3 supplements

no harm in using them though,id go the 10.0 at that height,as the 5.0 wont benefit much at that height,i use uv tubes with agamids,they often sit up against the tube with no ill effects

[JMiller24]

Thanks Richard! So I should probably use a basking light for the basking spot instead of the infrared heat light? Then maybe just stick an infrared in the other slot so I can see him at night.

[Richard.C]

i reckon it would be more natural that way,plus make it nice and bright during the day

[Susann]

Would like to go with 2 heat lamps. How should do you guys think I should space them. (72" enclosure) I've been running the numbers and I'm thinking I should place the first lamp about 18 inches in and that would heat up the basking spot. The second would be somewhere between 40 - 48 inches in. I'm thinking this would create the gradient that Ali was talking about, but would also be close enough to the cool side to make sure it doesn't dip too low. Numbers aren't my thing, but I'm trying haha.

This is next to impossible to answer. You would need someone who lives in the same kind of climate as yourself, who heats/cools their house to the same temperatures as yourself, who has the same tank as yourself, to answer this. You see what I mean?
You really just need to get the tank and start experimenting with different wattage bulbs.
As for spacing the lamps, I would personally have one lamp-area towards one end of the tank, and another area towards the middle, but probably not past the middle into the cool side. Then mix and match with regular bulbs, UVB bulbs, and heat emitting bulbs of different wattages until you have the right gradient--a spot hot/warm enough and a side that stays cool enough.
You DO want to make sure the cool side doesn't dip too low, but more important is the fact that you are providing OPTIONS of different temps for your BTS so that he can regulate HIMSELF. Having a side that's a bit cooler than you want is fine as long as there are warmer temperature options in the tank. Having spots in the tank be a bit cool is an easier problem to remedy, in my opinion, than having the cool side be too warm.

I have two options. AP will either cut out 2 8inch circle screens for the lamps on top, or they can install incandescent sockets on the inside. I've been googling and can't really see which is preferred by reptile keepers or any pros and cons.

This is purely personal, but I feel a lot better having my light fixtures on the outside of the cage. That's the way I would go.

What type of bulbs would you recommend for the heat? I have been using this http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/in ... ghting.php in my current setup because it makes him visible at night. What do you guys prefer? Do your blueys seem to bask more if you use a a regular heat lamp instead of the infrared?

Personally, I like an UVB for basking. It feels more natural to me, to provide something as close to the sun as I can. I use an UVB bulb over a basking "slate", so they can absorb the heat from the stone through their tummies, and the rays through their back, just as they would out in the wild.
But the basking spot is not the only "heat" source I use for correct temps. I have a large UVB bulb mounted 15 inches above the slate (outside the cage) that is on during the day. I also have a CHE right next to it that, in the winter is on 24/7, in the summer is only on occasionally depending on weather, and spring/fall is on during the night. That's how I keep the temps on the warm and the cool side where they need to be. (Temp gun invaluable here!)

Lighting. Personally I would be more comfortable having the UV lights as well as calcium supplements. From reading around that seems to be a safe bet. AP will install fixtures for 18 inch fluorescent tubes. I figure I'll have them install 3 and with the right spacing that should cover pretty much all of the enclosure. My questions then are.

A. What lights do you guys prefer? I've been looking around and it looks like the RepitSun 5.0 (Link at bottom at post) seems to be a pretty good light. Would it be better for a Merauke to have the desert Reptisun 10.0 or would the 5.0 be enough?

The strength of the Reptisun would depend on the distance from bulb to skink--see my next answer-- You MAY however, have a preference on the COLOR of light from the different bulbs. I have Showcase cages; like I said, I have a Mercury vapor UVB that provides a nice color of light that I like, as well as heat. I also have fluorescent tubes at the front of the tanks, and when I installed Repti Glo UVB in them, the light was WAY TOO blue. I have two fixtures at the front of each tank, and went with the regular "yellow" fluorescent bulbs in the one on the cool side, just to balance out the blue light from the UVB fluorescent bulb on the warm side.

B. I am uncertain on the effectiveness of UV lights at different heights. I've read things that say anywhere between 18 and 12 inches high would be fine, but I'm not sure what to believe. What I do know is that this enclosure will be 18 inches high. Adding in substrate should probably but him somewhere between 14-16 inches from the light. The reptisun site says the 5.0 is effective at 12 inches from the reptile and that the 10.0 should be 20 inches from the reptile. That kind of puts me in no mans land. The 5.0 might not be enough and the 10.0 might be too much. I guess my question is, do you think a light like the 5.0 becomes completely ineffective around 15-16 inches or just less effective. I'm confused on this. What would you guys recommend? I also maybe could have them suspend the fixtures some.

You are probably looking at different bulbs, reading all their different recommendations, right? That's why you are confused. You have to go with the recommendations of each bulb. You can't say that a 10.0 has to be xxx distance away, because it makes a difference what kind of bulb it is. And I believe you are taking the suggested measurements too precisely; when they say 20 inches, it means it is effective UP TO 20 inches. So as long as the top of Toothless' back isn't more than 20 inches away from the bulb, you're good.
As far as "too much" is concerned; if the bulb is shining from behind a screen, it cuts down on the effectiveness of the rays. If you have the fixture on a screen, make sure it's a LARGE mesh screen--otherwise you're blocking most, if not all, of the rays. And as long as you provide hides, or plants, or anything else in the cage that shades a bit, you are fine as well. Reptiles usually can regulate themselves and seem to instinctively know when they need to move out of the rays.

Stupid question probably but the reptisuns should pretty much cover the actual viewing light also? Like, I wouldn't need extra lights to illuminate the tank. My understanding is that these pretty much simulate the sun for the reptile (obviously much less powerfully), but that should be enough to have a clear viewing of him also right?

I hate to repeat myself, but again, it all depends on what kind of bulbs you go with. That cage is also black; you may find you want to light it a bit more than I do my light colored ones. But that is something you won't know until you get all the lights and bulbs in there and see what it looks like.

I hope that helped in some way. We can tell you are doing your research and are just looking for help in perfecting Toothless' home, but so much of what you are asking for is relative to so many other things that it is hard to answer your questions precisely. Without rambling. Which I do alot. So I'll quit now.
Good luck!

[JMiller24]

Thanks a ton Susann! I really appreciate your advice. You have given me a lot to consider.

[Katrina]

Hi Captain 50 Questions.

Never feel bad for questions, as long as you are trying to provide the best home for your bluey all questions are fine.

You have good advice already, I'd get it, set it up and play around with heat bulbs, dimmers, heat tape etc to get the desired heat gradient. Shoot for a basking spot of 100 F and a cool end of 70 something. There is no single correct way to set it up, many would work. Just aim to get the proper temperatures. That enclosure looks gorgeous, I'm jealous! Would love to have that kind of space to decorate!

For accessories, I LOVE cork bark, drift wood, different kinds of woods and rocks - I get a lot of stuff from an aquarium store that is local. Things like mopani wood and various slate rocks look great and very natural, so I'd definitely look into those. You can make nice hides with rocks and silicone or tile and silicone and definitely buy some sort of digital temperature gun. Good luck and post pictures when you're done!!