BLUE TONGUE SKINKS

How many times does everyone allow each female to be mated? I've been looking at my poor blotched females. They all use to be beautiful but the ones I've mated are all so heavily roughed up on the upper third of the backs. Those males can really be rough. I wonder if these females have to endure as many matings in nature as they do when we put them in enclosed areas with males. Do these roughed up scales ever improve in appearance? I sound like a beginner asking these questions. It's just that I hold these really colorful animals back because of how they look and then they no longer look as nice after a season of breeding.

Kim

I'm not sure that I can answer the question other than to say that the number of days that mating occurs in their outdoor enclosure is fairly limited although the males are quite relentless during that time. It all tends to happen on days over about 23C in early November here so we are talking 6-10 days of action at most.

Mine have been quite damaged at times, but generally only scraping the surface skin off the scutes. I feel the less competant the male (younger) the more damage they do - particularly if their is a large size disparity between the female and the male then the males will have more attempts resulting in more damage.

Some have had raised scales for a few days after mating. Most will bear some permanent scarring which appears as roughing or pitting on the shoulders and sometimes on the head. Some males go for the head to subdue the females which looks quite violent but may actually be kinder than little ones that get dragged around the enclosure by females twice their size. Sometimes the damage results in darker colouration where the scarring occurs over a coloured blotch ie. pink or orange animals may scar a redder colour which can give them a less appealing look. Yellower animals don't seem to be affected in this way - probably due to the nature of the pigmentation.

Most I've found have the scarring pretty much resolved after two years but you will always be able to tell females that have been mated (sorry girls) :-).

I've thought about putting the female in a sock or something so she can't fight back, and the teeth won't damage the pretty scales.

I definitely agree that the "better" the male is at breeding, the less damage will be done. My northern females seem to heal completely within 3-4 months. By the next season I can't see any evidence of previous breeding. The easterns seemed to do more damage, but again tat might be do to inexperience as they are all breeding for the first time this year and acted lime clueless teenagers.

My shinglebacks are by far the gentlest and most efficient breeders. When the male decides to breed, he generay gets the hold he wants on the first or second try and hds on to that grip until he is done. Actually they hold on way past the point where they are done. The look on his face with his eyes rolled back in his head is priceless. It is very difficult to see the minor damage done during rugosa mating. It usually takes very close inspection to see it at all.

Kim, if your females are too ugly for you after breeding, let me know. Maybe we can work a way out for me to take them off your hands.

I'll keep that in mind Jeff. How many times do you breed each female?

Kim

This wild female blotchy with the scale marks from mating only breeds every second year on our property.

they should heel up kim,they may have blemishes though,i find the head area to be the worst,males seem to cop it the worst,from other males,my females get covered pretty hard over the season,after a few sheds they look alot better,have to look close to see any blemishes,my big vic alpine lass seems to cop it the most,shes had up to 5 males trying to grab her at once,this season she got hammered,can still see all the shoulder marks and her head is even scuffed,but after a few sheds she should look like her old self like she is in my avatar pic

oh and yes,wild ones cop it to,even the males,from male male combat

as to how many times,i cant be sure,but including when females arent ready to when shes closed her window id say some years up to and over 40 attempts quite easily,this season the vic alpine main lass got hammered,actually had 2 different vic alpine males cover her,at least,from what i saw,she was quite peeved by the end of the season,and was having goes at the males,one time she grabbed a males head from front on,and just sat there holding him,after that they pretty much left her be

kl wrote:How many times does everyone allow each female to be mated? I've been looking at my poor blotched females. They all use to be beautiful but the ones I've mated are all so heavily roughed up on the upper third of the backs. Those males can really be rough. I wonder if these females have to endure as many matings in nature as they do when we put them in enclosed areas with males. Do these roughed up scales ever improve in appearance? I sound like a beginner asking these questions. It's just that I hold these really colorful animals back because of how they look and then they no longer look as nice after a season of breeding.

Kim

I have found anywhere from 3 to 5 copulations does the trick nicely, but I basiclly allow them to breed as many times as the male has interest and female allows it. Once the male looses interest or the female gets unually grumpy, the party is over. In addition, my breedings are based on supervised introductions. I introduce the female, and if he does not breed her within a minute or two, she is pulled out and given another shot in a day or two. If they do breed, she is pulled out immediately after copulation is complete and they are reintroduced in a day or two in the same way. So in short they only get about 2 to 3 minutes together for each visit and an avrage of 3 to 5 visits a year. Also, do not worry too much about the females rough scales. I wash them with soap and water and sometimes apply a little Hydrogenperoxide. Once I am done breeding, I apply a little tripple antibiotic ointment. After a few sheds, they are back to new.

Hi James,

I also always supervise the introductions. I grab a chair and a magazine, and keep a small hand towel by my side and watch. I use the towel to let the female take her aggression out on it while the male breeds so to avoid her attacking when she's a bit testy. Until she starts fighting back, there's no way to know when the mating window closes. Same when introducing for the first time after brumation. Often it's a bit too early so they fight then too. I always take the female out immediately and I never allow the male to continue hanging on too long after he's done. Sometimes the matings can be gentle but even then the bite is hard and does leave marks.

Kim

thought u were going elsewhere with the magazine and hand towel for a sec kim,lol

ill try and find some scuffed up pics and after scuffed up pics of some of the blotchies

Kim, I want some babies!!!!!!!!!!! What do I need to do? Say the word, and it is done.

Really interesting question, I was wondering about how many times people thought they would normally breed in the wild as compared to captivity. Its also nice to hear how many copulations experienced breeders allow / aim for, good discussion.

Size / efficiency of the male does seem to make a big difference - my male Northern is smaller and a first time breeder and he tore up my females back really badly. I was starting to worry because she ended up bleeding quite a bit and he kept going for the same shoulder just making it worse (and also wasn't getting the job done). The Meraukes bred a lot more than the Northerns, but with very minimal damage to the female.

heres the vic alpine lass,in the middle of this seasons breeding season

i have a pic of her from yesterday somewhere so will put it up,she still looks rough,especially on the head,but after a shed or 2 she will look fine again,u will see blemishes,but have to look close to see them



the big vic alpine lass has had alot of litters over the years,but generally heals up will each season,if u look close u can see the marks still,but generally doesnt affect there coloring ect

saying that,my male nsw alpine copped a bit of angst the first season i had him from the vic alpine male,and now has scarring on his head,reddish area,his head should be quite pale,so they can get scarred to,maybe the head doesnt heal as well as the body

the nsw alpine male,scarring on head from 3 or 4 seasons ago


and the female bluemountains female responsible for the litter i found yesterday

Richard, now that I look back to the post I suppose I could have worded it better. I'm strange but not quite that strange though there are some people I know that might disagree.

Kim

haha,kim,i know what u meant

Some males are definitely more aggressive than others. I had one male that would walk around grabbing anyone who came close - male, female or baby. He was always getting into fights and was too punchy to be kept in with the group. Another big male I have is a lazy breeder. Doesn't follow the girls around and do the "hard yards" before mating like the others. He just lies there and when a female strolls by he grabs her very aggressively and mates with her before letting her go. The other guys are much less aggressive and do little damage.

Provided the female is in good shape she should be able to hold her own and let them know when they have had enough. As stated above, even with some scuffing on the scales it usually disappears over the next couple of sheds.

My main breeding main is normally very gentle with the ladies but the last couple times he's gotten mean So now a couple of my females have some scrapes on them. My little tanimbar male also has some wounds from where a female latched onto his head (and was quickly removed). They're all on paper towels during breeding season to keep everything clean. This year I've been letting non-violent pairs stay together much longer than I did before and it seems to be working well for my more timid males (they take about 15-25 minutes to build up courage). Obviously all pairings are 100% supervised and any real aggression results in separation. Still, the females are a bit roughed up and I'll be glad when breeding season is over and they get to shed the scratches away.