Question from a beginner

[ewarshaw]

We picked up our first BTS, a 3 day old baby Eastern, a few weeks ago. (S/he is my son's first ambulatory pet. Only fish before this. He is 9 and has wanted a BTS since he first saw and handled one at the zoo about 4 years ago.) We have done our homework and the little one (who my son has named Edmund) is well maintained and thriving. However, I do have a couple of questions that I wonder if anyone would be kind enough to help us with:

1. While Edmund eats most every day, and is happy with a slurry I make with cat food (Wellness Chicken Formula) + greens (usually kale) + fruit (usually mango), he has yet to show any interest in live food. We've tried crickets, wax worms, super worms . . . the works. But to no avail. I've even tried rubbing the worms in the cat food to scent them, and Edmund still pushes them aside--even if there is no other food in the bowl. Should I be worried about this? Any tips, techniques to try? My main concern is that the lack of live food has led to a lack of calcium supplement intake, which leads me to my second question.

2. So, s/he is not eating the bugs coated with calcium (and won't eat them when they are not coated with calcium either). But s/he also won't eat the cat food based meals I prepare if I put some of the calcium supplement into it. I've even tried putting some calcium into one bit and none into another, and, in each of the three times I have done this, the little beastie has only eaten the food without the calcium supplement! Any suggestions?

My thanks to anyone who has taken the time to read this and for any suggestions you may have.

Best regards,

Eric

[Katrina]

Welcome!!

They don't need to eat live food and some are quite picky, so if you don't find live food that Edmund likes I wouldn't worry at all. Many live healthy lives without ever eating live food.

As for calcium - Merrick cat/dog foods have a reasonable Ca:P ratio. You don't need to worry about how much calcium he eat specifically, you need to make sure there is more calcium than phosphorus, oxalates, etc as these things will bind to the calcium and make it unavailable for bone growth. I know this sounds complicated - but it isn't too bad. I'd recommend mixing some calcium into his slurry all the time - don't give him the option of no calcium. Even if he doesn't eat for a couple days, that is fine. When he is hungry he will eat - and he won't be so picky then!

Good luck!

[Nae]

Welcome

First off, slurry? Unless Im misinterpreting, isn't slurry used to describe something that's almost liquid? This is debatable, many (and I agree with this) are of the opinion that solids in a bts's diet are essential for healthy teeth and jaws. After all, they do have incredible jaw muscles, which would only go to waste if not exercised, plus liquid food isnt natural anyway I personally would feed the cat food as it is from the tin, chop up and mix in the veggies, and keep the fruit as treats

I wouldn't worry too much about the live food~ But when it comes to a bts not eating their food, then Im afraid some tough love is going to have to come into play Bts are smart, and they will learn that if they dont eat their food, its going to eventually turn into good food, like bribing a kid to eat their broccoli with icecream. A hungry bts is never a picky bts - Give him his food, covered in calcium, and leave it for the day. If he doesnt eat it, tough luck, he waits until next time. He will eventually get hungry and eat. They can go for months without food, so dont worry too much about starving him You could also try mixing the calcium throughout, rather then just putting it on top~

Good luck

[Linnea]

dont worry about the live food : ) the vitamin content is more balanced in the other food you feed him. i give mine crickets and grasshoppers mainly since my skink enjoys them as treats, and not since theyre good for him at all.

about calcium supplement, i use it in powder form and first mix it with the dog food so that the goo on the meat picks up the powder, then i put in veggies and mix so he wont miss them either : D
but as katrina said, good dog food already has some calcium. but since my skink is still growing im very careful with giving him enough supplement.

if my skink wont touch his veggies/picks them out (the thing he likes the least in this world), ill wait an extra day or so till the next feeding. then he wont miss a single leaf ;D 5 months ago i fed him every other day, now i feed him every 3-4 days depending on his appetite. he is nearly full grown though.

[phaemas]

I agree with Nae.

Welcome!

I feed my herp a blended portion of puppy food and fruits and veggies as well as non-blended veggies such as lettuce(Romaine,Apples,Cukes excetra)

[aggiegirl]

I would not do a slurry either as it might be harder to eat. I actually use the same food with calcium rich greens on my babies. I supplement with calcium once a week but notice they eat less when I do. I would definitely check your tank temperatures too. Cold-blooded critters are influenced greatly by incorrect temperatures. Do you have a scale to track your baby's weight. If it is increasing, that will give you piece of mind. Might skip superworms on a baby but do try another premium catfood or finely chopped chicken with veggies mixed in. Let us know if he doesn't eat soon.

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

I wouldnt feed the fruit. It is unnecessary and high in phosphorus which binds calcium.

[ewarshaw]

Thanks for all your good advice. I really appreciate it. As to 'slurry,' I apologize for any imprecision. It is merely the case that the mix of cat food, very finely chopped kale, and mushy mango looks to me like a suspension of solids in water, though, of course, it is a paste of sorts. As to solids, I plan to increase the size of the chopped matter, and move to more solids as the little one grows (not quite 4 weeks old now). As to temps in the tank, I have a tempgun, which I have been using rather religiously. The cold side of the tank ranges from about 78 - 82 (during the day), and is usually 80 throughout most of the cold side. The basking side/site has a slate tile, so the temp varies a bit depending upon whether you hit the gray or the rust colored side, but, generally, it ranges from 95 to 100, and Edmund both basks and burrows, making good use of both sides of the tank. The temp of our home at night is usually 73, and so I assume the tank bottoms out there. (From my reading, those temps are OK, yes?) As to weight, I do not have a scale (something to buy) but, as long as there is no calcium (or fight left ) in the food, he eats like a pro, has grown significantly in the 3+ weeks we have had him, and just completed his second shed. So, he's definitely getting enough to eat. As to the mango, I did not realize that was a problem. (I've been following the food chart I downloaded from the site, where mango is one of the fruits listed in the "Daily" category.) So very much to learn. Thanks again to all of you.

[James Wilson]

As others have already mentioned, live food is not necessary for their health or growth. I would do exactly like Katrina says atd add a good quality calcium suplement everyday at least until you get the skink to eat the calcium (then later maybe every other feeding). And remember skinks that eat everyday can be very picky eaters (especially if their owners omit food items that the skink previously turned down). Often situations like this are simply the skink equalivant of a spoiled child. Let the skinks hunger motivate it a little more and you will see much better results. In addition, please make sure your calcium suplement has no added phosphorous (Just calcium with some added D3). Also, please keep in mind that fruit is very high in phosphorous (btw, so are meal worms) which can totally throw off your desired 1:1 to 2:1 calcium:phosphorous ratio that you want to acheive. As a rule, you should try to limit fruit intake to no more than 10% of his total food intake. Lastly, I should ask if you are 100% sure on it being an Eastern BTS? They are not very common at all in the US, and only a couple breeders working with them. If you can post a photo (or even better, photos) here, I (along with many others here) would be happy to varify your skink's correct subspecies.

[James Wilson]

I wouldn't worry too much about the live food~ But when it comes to a bts not eating their food, then Im afraid some tough love is going to have to come into play Bts are smart, and they will learn that if they dont eat their food, its going to eventually turn into good food, like bribing a kid to eat their broccoli with icecream. A hungry bts is never a picky bts - Give him his food, covered in calcium, and leave it for the day. If he doesnt eat it, tough luck, he waits until next time. He will eventually get hungry and eat. They can go for months without food, so dont worry too much about starving him You could also try mixing the calcium throughout, rather then just putting it on top~

Well said.

[Katrina]

Don't worry - sounds like you are doing everything perfectly! The temps are great.

Mango is one of the healthiest fruits, but fruits overall should be used as treats only and no more than 10%. The "Feed Daily" part might be a bit misleading.

[El Lobo]

I am one of those who feeds drier food in preference to wet foods so I have included a photo as an example of that type of meal.

As s/he is so young it might be worthwhile occasionally trying some scrambled egg with fine chopped greens and calcium powder. Raw egg is OK but may be a little much for a developing gut as it can cause loose faeces in older skinks. Lightly cook the egg and while it is still a bit runny mix in the finely chopped greens and calcium and either heat some more or leave until it sets lightly. Make sure it is not fed hot but only warm to cool.

Only a little fruit as has been said. Mango or papaya are good choices, particularly papaya as it has enzymes that aid digestion.

[ewarshaw]

Thanks again for all of the additional information and support. It seems this is a very active and supportive community, and I am glad of it.

As to Edmund being an Eastern BTS, no I am not 100% sure and will try to post some pics in the near future so that you experts out there can tell us. The person we got our baby from is an officer of the Chicago Herpetological Society and has had this particular breeding pair for many years. She told me it is an Eastern, and I had no reason to doubt her authority in the matter (and no knowledge base either ).

As to feeding every day, we have only been doing this because it is a baby. As it grows we fully plan to cut back on frequency. And we will cut back on the fruit. Also, we are quite prepared to offer up the "tough love" regarding the calcium enhanced food. No interest in spoiled younglings here.

So, one more question: At what age should one switch to aspen bedding?

Thanks again for all of your help.

[Katrina]

You can have them on aspen at any age. You might want to have them on paper towel or similar for the first week or two to make sure what goes in is coming out, but they are fine on aspen at any time.

[Spindown]

ooh pics please! thank you for asking questions and being willing to listen to the answers.

Its too bad that he wont eat his calcium powder, mine all do. Have you tried different brands of calcium? Also, i believe i heard somewhere you can crush up eggshell, have any of you heard of this technique?

I've had my IJ since he was 2 months old, and i've always had him on aspen. They love to bury in it, its so cute!

[Katrina]

I feed my herp a blended portion of puppy food and fruits and veggies as well as non-blended veggies such as lettuce(Romaine,Apples,Cukes excetra)

Phaemas - romaine, apples and cucumbers are some of the least healthy choices you could pick. Please do some more research. I would never feed romaine or cucumber and apple as a occasional treat only.

The veggies/greens portion should be made up of healthy veggies. Lettuces and cucumbers are mostly just water - very little nutritional value. Instead, look for choices like dandelion greens, beet greens, endive, arugula, collard greens, bok choy, squashes like butternut squash or green beans. Fruit should make up no more than 10% of the diet - they love it and it is fun to give them as a treat, but it isn't necessary for a healthy diet.

[Katrina]

I use crushed egg shell sometimes - there is no D3, so if you want to supplement D3 as well you need to purchase one. I switch between Calcium plus D3 and egg shell - I just rinse off the egg shells, bake them in the oven on low heat to make them brittle / dry and then grind them up in the blender. Makes a great, cheap calcium powder.

[ewarshaw]

Thanks. We are on paper towel now and will switch shortly.

[phaemas]

@Katrina-Thanks,I still have to go grocery shoping for my new skink.

Just a question:

They said she was eating wet cat food once a week, How am I going to get her eating solids such as lettuce,apple,squash if she just spits them out?

And

What do I need for her or what do you guys want me to get her?

I have my list:
-Squashes
-Calcuim&Dc3 powder
-mango/papaya
-
-

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

You dont need mango or papaya...