Just got first BTS - exremely worried about sunken back

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Serpentine
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Just got first BTS - exremely worried about sunken back

Postby Serpentine » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:26 am

Hi everyone,

Today I just recieved a baby skink that I had bought a few weeks ago from a breeder online. His cousin drove down to meet me at my house to drop it off. I was really excirted when I first saw it but noticed his back was significantly sunken, I asked him about it but he said he thought it was normal and didn't know much about it.

Initially I thought it may be because of lack of calcium or exposure to UVB or maybe he/she's just really malnourished. Either way I would really appreciate any help you can give me of how to get him healthy. He is aprox 5 1/2 months old and he seems to be drinking fine and loves his crickets but is ignoring his veges though I heard this is normal.

I've added some photos so hopefully it'll be easier to see what I mean.
Thanks for your help.

Also I don't know if you have any advice but I put in Carefresh Natural Pet bedding as the substate and after watching him for over 15 minutes he kept trying to eat the bedding and I was getting really worried that he'd swallow it cause most of it is smaller than the size of his head and mouth. So to prevent him from doing this I replaced it with newspaper instead and added some leaves from the garden so he could burrow under them. Is there anyway I could encourage him not to eat his substrate lol or suggest one that they would tend not to eat?
Thanks.

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Postby xxmonitorlizardxx » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:58 am

Since it is so young. It is probably a birth defect.
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Postby WanderingChai » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:37 am

What Monitor said.... Probably a birth defect. Good luck! :thumbs:
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Postby Coomassie » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:06 am

I would take him to a vet. He could just be really thin or it could be a birth defect. He could also have parasites. If you do go to the vet, let us know how it goes!
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Postby Nae » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:15 am

What breeder did you get him from? No reputable breeder I know of will sell any babies with birth defects/illness etc.

Also, instead of crickets which contain no nutritional value, switch to tinned cat/dog food - Much healthier and easier to feed too! Try dicing up his veggies very finely and mixing them in with the dog/cat food, that way he cant pick around them, as they are known to do :lol:
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Postby James Wilson » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:50 am

It is a birth defect, and honestly, there is not much a vet can really do. Just set him up properly, and feed him well, (make sure he gets good calcium suplementation). Over time there is a good chance that it will become less obvious as he grows. In some cases I have seen it become almost undetectable, but in others, it can prove to end up being fatal. You should definitely ask for a refund from the jerk that got his cusin to do his dirty work for him. It pretty obvious that this was an intentional deception, and that really sucks.
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Postby James Wilson » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:03 am

Nae wrote: Also, instead of crickets which contain no nutritional value, switch to tinned cat/dog food - Much healthier and easier to feed too! Try dicing up his veggies very finely and mixing them in with the dog/cat food, that way he cant pick around them, as they are known to do :lol:


I agree. Good quality dog food has just about everything he needs right now (other than his calcium needs). The dog food will help put size on quickly, and help him grow into his larger wavy spine. As for the veggies, I would not stress right now about it, as baby bts are basically carnivorous in their first few months. As they mature, they start to progressivly consume more vegtable matter, and it is not until they start to near adulthood that they become obvious omnivors.
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Postby James Wilson » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:11 am

Sorry for the nearly identical post earlier. The site was acting up...
Last edited by James Wilson on Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Fatal_S » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:39 am

I'm going to go the other way and say it's not a birth defect, he's a climber. Meaning he's been climbing the walls of his tank and bending himself at 90*. It tends to leave that same dip, especially in animals where the bones are softer and they're underfed.

On the plus side, it's not as bad as MBD, and if you can keep him from climbing walls and bending like that, and get him fed well with calcium, he could very well recover almost fully.

Seems to me like the breeder wasn't feeding him enough, explaining why he's so skinny, why he was trying to climb a lot (find food) and why he's trying to eat substrate.

I will agree that the daily dog food with added calcium is exactly what he needs. You pretty much want him stuffed all the time so he doesn't feel the need to climb. Also, provide him with tons of hides and such in his tank so he doesn't go looking for safety elsewhere. If you see him climbing, either block off the view of whatever he thinks he's climbing too or take him out for some exercise.
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Postby Alioop » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:05 pm

I agree 100% with James- Looks like a birth defect, Vet prob won't help & the breeder that sold him to you deserves a kick in the teeth! I hope you'll contact him asap and demand a refund.
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Postby Coomassie » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:17 pm

This is more a question for the mods but is it inappropriate to ask for the name of the breeder?
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Postby Nae » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:51 pm

Coomassie wrote:This is more a question for the mods but is it inappropriate to ask for the name of the breeder?


Hmm, true, you do have a point there, I believe there is a rule against mentioning names of businesses/breeders with the intent being negative about them.
But then again, why not mention names so as to perhaps warn people/ make other people think "hang on a sec, that place is normally pretty good, what happened there?"
Last edited by Nae on Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Katrina » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:00 pm

Coomassie wrote:This is more a question for the mods but is it inappropriate to ask for the name of the breeder?


We don't want to slander anyone online, but it is ok to ask about a breeder and whether or not they are good to purchase from. So yes, it would be ok to ask the name so people know to avoid for future reference. But this will be an Australian breeder so it won't apply to most members on this site. :)
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Postby Nae » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:08 pm

Ah that makes sense!

But an Aus breeder? But the OP owns a red eared slider, which is illegal in Aus, so I have a feeling she isnt from Aus :lol:
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Postby James Wilson » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:21 pm

Fatal_S wrote:I'm going to go the other way and say it's not a birth defect, he's a climber. Meaning he's been climbing the walls of his tank and bending himself at 90*. It tends to leave that same dip, especially in animals where the bones are softer and they're underfed.


You cre correct in that wall climbing can definitely cause this sort of thing as well. However, it takes quite a bit of time to cause damage to that extent, and this looks like a pretty young animal. I have seen these birthdefects first hand as described in the following paragraph, and I still tend to think this is most likely a birth defect, as the similarities in this case and other cases I have seen in the past are too obvious for me to ignore.

Often spinal deformities in new-born neonate blue-tongues are incorrectly attributed to metabolic bone disease, but are actually often the result of what happens when gravid females are not given access to adequate basking temperatures. I have a friend who purchased a large, obviously gravid, blue-tongue from one of the big pet store chains (Petco). This large female was an imported Irian Jaya Blue-tongue that had been kept at room temperature for her two-month stay at the pet store. She gave birth to 10 baby skinks 1 day after she was brought home. These babies had spines that appeared to be too large for their bodies, causing many of them to be contorted into little C shapes that were twisted so that the rear ventral region was facing up. There were a couple of these little skinks whose bodies looked like inchworms, causing them to tip over onto their sides each time they attempted to move. The others were able to use their front legs to crawl in circles. Three of the babies died shortly after birth, and the remaining seven were given to me in hopes that I could keep them alive. Most Vets do not give a very optimistic prognosis for babies born with these deformities, and freezing them was recommended as the best alternative. However, my wife was able to keep 4 of the original 7 alive by hand feeding and watering them every day. It was not long till most of them were eating on their own, although they still were hardly mobile. In time as they grew, their bodies seemed to accommodate their spinal deformities, allowing them to straighten out to some extent. Two of them appeared almost normal, having only curly tail tips as a reminder of their previous disability, while the others had wavy spines of various degrees. Although many people suggested that we put them down, these baby skinks fought hard to live, and have all been adopted out to good homes. I mention this situation as an example of what can be avoided by simply providing a proper basking site for gravid females.

As fatal S mentioned, spinal deformities can also result in skinks that try to climb up one of the corners of their glass cage, forcing their mid-body into that L shape that you described. When skinks stay in this kind of an unnatural position for long periods of time, on a regular basis, spinal deformities may result. This behaviour is usually caused by something lacking in the skink's environment causing it to attempt an escape. It could be due to improper temperatures, or the skink may be feeling vulnerable, causing it to seek adequate shelter. Skinks do not understand glass as a solid object, which is why some "unhappy" specimens keep climbing up the same corner over and over. If your skink does this, try to find out what is wrong with the enclosure, and you may also want to consider a custom cage with solid walls.
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Postby Serpentine » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:01 pm

Thanks for all your advice guys. I have bought him calcium powder which I intend to put on his food a few times a week and I will be sure to buy some cat/dog food, shouldn't be too hard as I have both pets at home :) I also noticed when I got home from work this afternoon that all his mealworms were gone and so were a few of his veges so I know he's at least trying them now.
I sent an email to the guy asking him about the back and he replied with "it's normal at that age and it should become less noticeable as he becomes older" which I can't help feeling is a complete lie.

I don't know if the breeders name will be of any use as he is not part of any group/company he just breeds for sale and posts them on an online auctions and classified site. I'll just say he resides in the North Island.

I am from New Zealand for who was wondering why I have an RES :)

I have talked to my mum about it and she said I should return him but I can't do that as I am already too attached to him but asking for a refund is a good idea. I will let you all know how it goes within the next few days.
Thanks again :)

Also I forgot to note that the guy I got him from said he was an "adventurous" one so maybe that explains the possibility why he might be climbing though I have never seen him try to climb up the sides of his tank.
11.01.93 - Cassie - Boxer R.I.P
05.03.05 - Roxy - cat R.I.P
18.08.02 - Angel - Labrador
11.01.09 - Cleo - cat
28.01.11 - Squirtle - RES
00.07.11 - Chin Chin - mouse R.I.P
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Postby Coomassie » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:29 am

Ah, well welcome to the board! I know we have at least one other member from NZ. Good luck with whatever you decide to do and if you have any more questions or need help, just let us know!
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Postby Serpentine » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:55 pm

Thanks :) I should try and find who the NZer is
11.01.93 - Cassie - Boxer R.I.P
05.03.05 - Roxy - cat R.I.P
18.08.02 - Angel - Labrador
11.01.09 - Cleo - cat
28.01.11 - Squirtle - RES
00.07.11 - Chin Chin - mouse R.I.P
10.08.11 - Mojo - BTS
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Postby occi1 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:41 am

As others have said. I have had baby skinks with the same issue due to trying to climb walls of the enclosure. With time all young have developed normally. I just discouraged climbing by providing more hides and reducing the number of babies per enclosure.

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