Gender determination via reaction inconclusive

[critterguy]

I found out a bluetongue skink had been dropped off at a local petstore of my-so went in and discovered it was actually a nice looking Northern(age unknown-probably decently old-and probably about 21 inches). I decided to bring my own(a male-12 months old 17.5 inches TL) in to test out any reactions. We observed their reactions seperated by a screen. They both seemed interested in each other. Mine simply sat there-the shop bluey was incredibly active/squirmy and was running all over the place-frequently trying to get through the screen. Once or twice it huffed and flattened out its sides and tilted towards mine but other than that nothing that looked particularly of note. Mine simply observed this bluey and would either make a few steps towards him...but he was much more relaxed than the other bluetongue-did not seem particularly worried about the rather larger bluey on the other side of the screen.

Assuming this is the wrong time of year to try these sort of experiments? It'd be nice if their was some way of guessing gender otherwise.

[Lea]

It's more likely attributed to the tameness of the blue tongue itself. Most of my skinks couldn't give two hoots if you showed them another blue tongue, but when I have had a rescue come in who isn't used to handling, people, being close to another skink (unless in the mood for action), the rescued skink will go bonkers, even if in a cage!

They are naturally territorial and I would say that your handled, well-fed and nurtured skink has a lovely secure feeling, even when taken to another environment. The shop skink is less likely handled frequently or well-fed and has to defend it's meagre existence.

[Jeff]

I have put all kinds of skinks together at different times of the year in relation to cooling. I have come to the conclusion that if skinks are not recently out of cooling and ready to breed, it is pretty impossible to determine their genders based on behavior alone. The exceptions are skinks under a year old. Newborn skinks are capable of reproducing much sooner than most people realize. The earliest I have heard of a BTS dropping sperm plugs is 6-7 weeks old. That skink mated at around 6 months which resulted in babies about 9 months after the "father" was born. Sorry, a little OT.

The one thing I have not spent any time doing is putting known gender skinks together at random times of the year to observe their reactions to each other. All I know is that the times I have put unknown skinks together (over a year old), there has NEVER been any recognizable "gender specific" behavior except after cooling. When they are not in their breeding window, their behavior seems to vary from individual to individual independent of gender.

I'm not sure if I was able to communicate that clearly, but for example, a submissive male will often act the same as a female when put with a dominate male - even DURING breeding season. At other times, you can completely forget about telling the difference. Remember, one well known BTS breeder had two skinks breed 3 consecutive years without ever producing babies before he saw the "female" drop sperm plugs! I shutter at the thought!

[critterguy]

Indeed if I remember correctly mine began everting hemipenes and dropping sperm plugs around the 5-6 month mark.

That is a pretty crazy story Jeff. I'd assume this would be the case with a larger male and a much smaller male who does not want to get beaten up lol. An acquaintance of mine bought a presumed male BTS for his known female and during introductions this February both sat there and wagged their tails at eachother-which we interpreted as him having 2 females.

I'm in a bind cause I most definetly do not have the funds right now to get him/her(granted $130 is not too unreasonable). He/she is a nice looking Northern-similar color to Evosolley's Raptor or Andrew Seike's "Martha" but I would really only be able to justify keeping it around if it was a female.

It seems when my bluetongue ends up in a novel environment his first reaction is simply to sit there and presumably take it all in before acting. Shop bluetongue would absolutely not stay still even in your hands. I've taken my bluey to a lot of educational demos and other things and people are constantly surprised at how calm he is. Some question if he is in fact aware of whats going on around him. I suspect that tame bluetongues somehow habituate to the point where in a new/open environ they view most stimuli as moot. A phenomena like this might explain some snakes that I've seen that are eager to either bite you or try to eat your hand whilst in the cage-but once removed are totally calm.

[Jeff]

i wish there was an easy way to tell for sure. The fact that there isn't, is one of the main reasons there are not more people breeding them. People don't want to have to buy a bunch of skinks in order to get one or two breeding pairs. I wish I had a bunch of extra room. If I did, I would raise up a lot of babies until I knew their genders and then sell them as males or females. Of course those would be worth a lot more money!

[Fatal_S]

I think there must be some gender-traits that can be noticed young. Not that I know, but at one point I ordered many skinks from Andrew Seike. He knew what I already had, and managed to send basically exactly the genders I needed to make good breeding pairs. One day I shall kidnap him and learn all his secrets.

In my personal experience, my blueys don't react the same through screen/bars as they do through glass or with no barrier. Even my super-aggressive male doesn't pay much attention to other skinks if there's something visible in between. But through glass or in person (mouth taped for safety when gender-testing) he's absolutely evil to other skinks, either gender. This spring though he really mellowed out and was a gentleman towards the females, though none would have him.

I like introducing skinks and pairing them. I'm really dissapointed I didn't get many locks this year, so I can't wait to brumate and breed again!

[critterguy]

We pulled the screen up briefly which caused mine to move towards the shop skink(which was being mostly held be a friend to keep it from either running into mine or otherwise). So yeah-they didn't have much opportunity to interact but I'd say that introductions behind glass may not be effective as they'd remove most olfactory cues.