Ben Seigel Albino Update

[Scincoides]

Inbreeding or line breeding, which is a nicer term for it is not as detrimental in reptiles as it is in mammals. I've heard that up to seven generations are fairly safe, at least before defects start popping up. In my mind there's no moral issue with line breeding in reptiles as long as its notoverdone. I guarantee you in the wild animals breed with their own relatives every now and again. It becomes an issue when we have to resort to it due to a lack of new genetic material, which is the case with our Australian species in the U.S. we have no access to new blood so when it does get smuggled over here, we should at least use it accordingly. As the owner of those animals, regardless of where he got them, its his responsibility to use them only on our already overly inbred population of easterns. Diversify our bloodlines when we can.

[Spindown]

Ben Seigle is not just a common breeder. He runs one of the largest import/breeding operations in the U.S. He is extremely well known and respected in the reptile community

Well, he may be extremely well known, but his respected status is dropping rapidly. This is not the only borderline shady thing he has pulled lately. He apparently had a break with reality recently as well, and did some REALLY stupid things. I researched this guy early on and the internet is very unforgiving in respects to deleting past history...the guy has gone through some incredibly awful rude periods, and I personally would never buy from him.

This crossing thing with Northerns etc is just one more nail in the coffin for me. All I can say is a) WOW, and b) I am NOT surprised.

[RoryBreaker]

Ben Seigle is not just a common breeder. He runs one of the largest import/breeding operations in the U.S. He is extremely well known and respected in the reptile community

This crossing thing with Northerns etc is just one more nail in the coffin for me. All I can say is a) WOW, and b) I am NOT surprised.

Breeding albino easterns with Northerns has already been done in Australia. Check this out
http://bluetonguelizard.com.au/2012-2bluey-pairings/

Where he says he has "out-crossed" them, he has openly said on other forums he used a Kimberly form northern.

Cheers

[Scincoides]

Its not quite as bad since he has access to new blood, but why??? I have no problem with morphs, but hybrid animals bother me deeply. With all the beautiful easterns in his collection, why muddy the gene pool with northern blood?

[Scotts1au]

I suppose, playing devils advocate, at least if breeding with a. Northern it is not a hybrid, but an intergrade. If buying one, is someone buying as an Eastern, or just an albino bluey?

[RoryBreaker]

I suppose, playing devils advocate, at least if breeding with a. Northern it is not a hybrid, but an intergrade. If buying one, is someone buying as an Eastern, or just an albino bluey?

The reasoning he gives is to make the albino gene stronger. The albino easterns have been plagued with problems eg. Low libido, poor body tone etc.. and out crossing to other locale easterns and Northerns is an attempt to fix things up.

[Jeff]

If it wasn't possible to produce healthy animals any other way, then I wouldn't have as much of a problem with responsibly crossing with the closest sub-species. That excuse is pretty ridiculous in Australia though with easy access to new eastern blood lines.

I honestly wouldn't care what people do with their animals, even here until it has an affect on the U.S. population as a whole. I would LOVE to have a T.s.scincoides albino! There are a hundred things I would like to do with it. What is disappointing, is seeing that by the time I have an opportunity to obtain one, I won't know for sure if it is a pure T.s.s. or a hybrid/integrade unless it looks funky enough to know it is NOT pure. It would be nice to be able to purchase an animal like that without wondering if its off spring are going to come out looking like Frankenskinks because of mixed blood that didn't show up in the parent.

I realize some people would be satisfied with simply an "albino BTS". To each, his own, but an albino eastern would work for those people perfectly. I just don't see any benefit to crossing these, but TONS of downside. I really hope Ben Siegel reconsiders and only breeds this skink to other easterns.

[Spindown]

The reasoning he gives is to make the albino gene stronger. The albino easterns have been plagued with problems eg. Low libido, poor body tone etc.. and out crossing to other locale easterns and Northerns is an attempt to fix things up.

And now I have 0 interest in an albino Eastern if they somehow were available here...obviously the albino gene is causing some serious issues. Too bad they will still be bred despite the already admitted problems with the morph...

[Richard.C]

I suppose, playing devils advocate, at least if breeding with a. Northern it is not a hybrid, but an intergrade. If buying one, is someone buying as an Eastern, or just an albino bluey?

The reasoning he gives is to make the albino gene stronger. The albino easterns have been plagued with problems eg. Low libido, poor body tone etc.. and out crossing to other locale easterns and Northerns is an attempt to fix things up.

Thats funny,its the fact there albino in the first place thats there issue,put them over anything,end of the day same result

If your vision is impaiered in daylight,how the heck do u sprint after a female let alone subdue her and see where to grab her,blind fold a normal and it will have similar issues

People are trying to fix albino beardy issue to,they need hand feeding as they rely on keen eyesight to feed,hence rarely do they survive past 12 months of age,probably need to be half force fed to accept food,but people keep trying,because they are albino

To me thats not a desirable trait to be breeding,they should be able to live normally with out needing a hand to mate,feed ect

[Spindown]

To me thats not a desirable trait to be breeding,they should be able to live normally with out needing a hand to mate,feed ect

That's how I feel about it too...if it is unhealthy because the albino mutations are linked to other detrimental mutations (as seems to be the case here, and there are other species that have linked issues like this), I think it should not be bred. However, I would never breed just for money, which seems to be the way that detrimental mutations are passed around (jag carpet python w/ head wobble, spider ball python w/ head wobble, texas leucistic rat snake with bubble eyes...etc etc). Or, that many people seem to feel that appearance trumps health issues.

I would have no issue with the albino blueys if they were just healthy skinks who happened to be albino!