my e-mail to the vet and her reply:(

[Fatal_S]

Finding a good home for a healthy pet so you can devote money and time to an ill one sounds quite responsible. Sadly though, everything you're saying takes time, and Marcie needs vet help now, not late once you've been paid for work or have rehomed you beardie.

[lemon1]

I can hardly believe this thread . You are obviously not being very responsible and telling stories . You should NEVER leave your reptile alone . CPR PLEASE ! I can't even believe your parents would allow you to own a pet . I have a 12 year old and I would never allow him to have a pet in my home that we as a family couldn't be responsible for . Seriously , try to find a home for your reptiles and wait until your older to own a pet . BTW I would also recommend you get your butt to the clinic Mel recommended TOMORROW. I live in Winnipeg and nowhere is more than 30 minutes away .

[WanderingChai]

Could you answer us about how you feel about giving away your animals until you have a good income??

[batsam]

this thread makes me sad
WanderingChai, its so refreshing to know how devoted and responsible you are with your reptiles! I have been sharing time with my 12 year old brother & my indo so that he can learn and maybe one day have his own reptile.. but I would definitely not let him have something that I wouldn't be backing him up on, or that he didn't know enough about. I feel my indo is a "family pet" as everyone has grown to love him.. but I can whole-heartedly say that i'm prepared as an individual to be there for him 110% whenever he may require so.

[El Lobo]

Cutting through all the BS in this thread can only bring all to the same conclusion. This skink is seriously ill and needs immediate veterinary attention. It is apparent the current treatment regime is not appropriate and needs to be rectified. Even the response from the vet acknowledges changes need to be made, but her hands are tied until she can re-examine and prescribe accordingly. Meanwhile, the skink is suffering while all this procrastination take place.

When you take on an animal as a pet you are ethically responsible to ensure it gets all it needs to sustain a healthy life, including veterinary care when it is called for. I fear this skink is now most likely suffering significantly and either needs to be treated for healing if possible, or euthanised to end its suffering. Condemning it to what is looking more and more like a slow and painful death is not only inhumane but immoral.

When you really care for your animals you will move heaven and earth on their behalf, not baulk because it is a 30 minute trip to the vet. I use a few different vets for different species with the closest savvy vet being 40 minutes away. The avian specialist is 1 3/4 hours from me and the specialist referral centre more than 2 hours. I consider myself fortunate they are not further away.

[Richard.C]

plus even with meds ect,if u dont rectify the terrium conditions which caused respitory infection in the first place you wont get rid of it

[missmacabre]

This is another case of irresponsible parents letting their kids have whatever pets they want. It's sad and makes me angry that it's the animal that suffers in the end. The parents will most likely get her another one to replace it

[phaemas]

It's NOT me. I WANT to take my pets to the vet but my parents think it's ridiculus the price to pay. My parents SEEM to know how much this hurts me but can't do anything because of the ''expsence''.

Richard-I'm talking to my dad to build her a bigger terrarium so she has more room to walk around and bask and such.

I'm also woundering how I can entice her to eat? Right now i've been hand feeding her and she's loosing weight. She weighs around 460 grams right now and i've been feeding high fat foods and Baby and Iggy food wich the vet reccomended.

[missmacabre]

Then don't get a pet if you have no way of taking it to the vet or paying for said vet visit. Like I said, irresponsible parents breed irresponsible children. Why did your parents let you get animals if they think it's a waste of money taking them to the vet?!

[Kbell31]

In all honesty, EVERYONE who has posted on this subject has dissapointed me! The OP is a constant source of controversy. No one knows her living situation and we could all go on and on about how she should do this and not do that, but in all reality it does no good at all to the skink. If we all care so much about the welfare of her skink why has not one single person offered to donate her the money it would cost to have her skink looked at by the Vet Hospital that specializes in reptiles? All of us chipping in to help may not solve all this girls issues, but certainly it is a Christian thing to do(Im sorry if I offend anyone here by using that word, if you are not a Christian then just scratch that out and put in a more acceptable term to you, kind, decent etc.) Of course we can ask her to provide proof of the visit etc. Otherwise I cant imagine anyone else adding anything else that hasnt been said before.
Phaemas- I will be willing to send you some money to help you and your parents get the skink to the vet, but it MUST be done and you will need to provide proof.

[Katrina]

Phaemas - I am in Alberta and have access to one of the best herp vets in the province. If you can get Marvin to me I will guarantee he gets the best possible vet care. I might be able to meet you part way to pick her up, I'm not sure. PM me if you are interested, we should do this quickly. If this happens, I will rehome Marvin once she is healthy if I can find a good home for her.

Kbell - I'm not entirely sure how giving her money will improve the situation. To me, it seems like "rescuing" a reptile from a pet store. If you are paying full price for the reptile then you aren't rescuing it - you are purchasing it and encouraging the pet store to get another one to replace it, because they just made a profit despite their poor practices. If Phaemas doesn't listen to anyone and gets two blueys without being certain she can care for them or without being certain her parents will support her if necessary and then when things get bad nice people bail her out she won't really learn a lesson. I know in both cases the innocent party suffers and it is a horrible thing. But I'm not sure that rescuing Marvin by donations or purchasing from a pet store with poor husbandry is the right thing to do here. I've stressed over this particular poster a lot and I don't think that sending her money will help anything. Not when she doesn't have her parents support and posts ridiculous things about CPR and mouth to mouth and makes new usernames when she wants to ask about breeding.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh and I'm not trying to represent the site or anything by this post. Feel free to disagree with me or make better suggestions, I'm not certain what the best course of action is here and would appreciate more input.

[lemon1]

I think giving Marvin to you is the best idea Katrina . Sending her money will not result in Marvin getting care . Phaemas doesn't have the ability to care for her pet .

[Richard.C]

size wont matter much at the moment,unless u have the right temps,with respitory infections u want to keep them slightly warmer,have u any thermometres to check your temps,eg to check basking temp high,warm end temps and cool end temps ect,if u can rectify what caused the respitory infection in the first place you will go a long way towards getting your bluey back in to shape,meds will help,but if temps are suboptimal,the lizard will just stay sick,temps will also help the immune system fight the infection,along with treatment with meds,rectifying there conditions is important to them for making a recovery.

is your vet a reptile vet?????????

as for eating,you may need to keep force feeding,if u have access to snails maybe try them to,its like chocalate for blueys,they love them,is she drinking?it will be just as important to have her drinking to,keep her hydrated well shes going through all this

but seriously look at how you keep this lass,especially the temps she has available to her,what we think should be warm enough can be way under what they need to function properly,and usually if not warm enough,thats how respitory infections begin

[Kbell31]

I do not see it as a "bailout". I see it as a morally right suggestion in the right direction. We should be merciful to people like Phaemas. So she states unbelievable things and usually causes us all to sigh and shake our heads. But in light of this, we should be thankful and greatful most of us have been blessed with more knowledge, wisdom and experience than her and not withhold help simply because she does not make the right choices all of the time. She is afterall, 13 years old. And unlike Wandering Chai who is a very competent and mature person her age, has been raised by people who essentially have molded her into who she is today. Phaemas did not choose her parents, the same as Phaemas's skink did not choose Phaemas. See where Im going with this? Giving her money as I stated before will not solve all of her issues and it is possible she will not miraculously become a better more responsible pet owner because of it, but all the advice you have given her so far has fallen on deaf ears. I am attempting a different approach. Please realize some may think this is just throwing money at a problem hoping it goes away but I see it as charity. Kat I love your suggestion of helping her, it is a very good thing you have offered. I hope everyone can just take a step back from being angry at Phaemas and realize that a situation like this, that seems so unfathomable to them is a blessing that they were brought up well and have had better opportunities than a lot of people.

EDIT- My idea of donating her money for the vet appt was a step in the right direction, in part bc that is what I can personally offer, I cannot take her skink in myself. Whether or not anyone agrees is fine. It was the idea I had that just throwing all this knowledge at her was not resulting in anything positive. Actions speak louder than words, and if she is willing to relinquish her pets to a member on her then that is just as well IMO.

[Gail]

I think its absolutely disgusting that the parents are acting this way. Being the adults, its their legal responsibility to care for any pets in their household. Refusing more vet care is flat out animal abuse and illegal, at least it is in the states.
Phaemas might be a bit of a drama queen but I really do think you guys are expecting too much from a 13 yr old and not enough from the parents. I personally don't know any 13 yr old who makes enough money to cover vet bills like that, can you even get a job at that age?

Phaemas, you might really want reptile pets but I think the behavior of your parents show that its a absolutely horrible idea. No pet should die because the adults don't like it or see it as a waste. I absolutely abhor cats but I still took my daughters cats to the vet when it was sick, its the right thing to do not only for the animal but for the child too. In my opinion, your parents are monsters to do that to you and marvin. Please take Katrina up on her offer, I know giving up a pet can be hard but you will be saving marvins life.

[Katrina]

I completely agree that Phaemas didn't chose her parents, same as none of us chose our families / situations. So it is impossible to judge without knowing what it is like to be in her situation, having gone through the things she has.

I wouldn't give her money based on what I have seen, but if she seems to mature and want to do what is best for Marvin, I would consider that option as well. I just won't be giving her money based on her posts where she seems to be looking for sympathy as this whole situation has been difficult on her. In my opinion, she needs to stop looking for attention and sympathy and focus on what is best for Marvin. If she does so, I would give her money for vet care. At this point, I'm not certain that the money wouldn't be wasted because it would be too difficult to follow the vet's instructions or because her brother or parents did something to prevent it. I know that is harsh, but I really believe that while you can't chose your parents / situation etc you can chose how you react to it. I know that is a lot to expect and probably unrealistic. And, in all fairness, I have had a great life with great parents - so I have NO IDEA what Phaemas is going through or how I would react if I were in the same situation. I want to be merciful and not judge her, but I still don't think that giving her money will help anything.

I do agree that we shouldn't be angry at Phaemas and those angry should probably not post on this thread. Beating a dead horse will not help. I appreciate that pretty much everyone who is posting in this thread is looking to help Marvin and is trying to be constructive. Kbell - I appreciate your perspective and appreciate that we can have different opinions / views without considering one to be right or wrong.

[Richard.C]

kbell and kat,i see it as a lovely gesture on your parts

im not angry at her,alot of people,old and young have had very crook animals,even experienced keepers,its apart of keeping them,and part of the learning curve that comes with it,that part sux,but unfortunatly happens

i think she cares about her animals,and wants her sick one to get better,i dont think she needs to give them up,i hope she learns from it,like we have all had to,or may have to oneday and gets it all back on track health wise to have many a year with her animals.

i hear what your saying kbell,i agree,being angry at them doesnt help them,or the animal,oh and forums are full of folk stating unbelievable things that cause you to sigh and shake you head,lol

my way of thinking is we all started out as newbies once,have made blunders ect ect,so shouldnt flame folk going through problems,but try to help if we can,even if it seems to fall on deaf ears,i admire her for asking for help,and alot of other people in a similar situation,flaming doesnt help and can make others a bit hessitant to ask for help in the future

[Bird_Brain]

Honestly, I refuse to donate any money simply due to the fact that I can not trust this individual. Unless the money is donated directly to the vet, how the heck do I know she will actually use it for the treatment of Marvin? She has completely disregarded EVERYTHING EVERYONE has recommended with the "I Know It All Attitude" she seems to have. I would also have no issue donating the money to a shelter/rescue if she were to give the skink up.

Sure we could all pull together and help the skink out, but what does that teach her? Heck her dad is/was a veterinarian according to her! He doesnt have any connections to the field anymore? Or was that another lie by Phaemas? Why doesnt her mom start posting on here again so we can tell her what she needs to do on caring for the skink? Or was her mom posting yet another lie by Phaemas?

As I said, I am all for second chances, but Phaemas is much way past the second chance. If we were to pull together and pay for vet care, who is going to take care of the additional visits after the first paid exam? What about when the skink gets sick again? Yes, sadly it is an animal's life we are talking about, however, its not my responsibility to care for other peoples animals.

[WanderingChai]

The absolute best thing for you to do Pheamas, is to give Marvin to Kat. After that you need to give Serina away to someone who will care for her.

[Kbell31]

Thanks Kat, it is always nice to do business with a rational person like yourself who does not resort to defensive behavior simply over a disagreement in thinking I actually dont believe we are that far off though when it comes to the bottom line of this whole issue.

I have to point out that I may have a different perspective on this bc of my relationship with God. I will not make this into a sermon, but just know I am not a "Sunday Christian". Those are the people that go to church every Sunday, complain all the way there and then feel they have done their duty for the rest of the week. It doesnt stop after church. Heck, I do not even go to church!

Anyways, I am happy that overall everyone comes from a good place wanting to help the skink. Richard made some good points. He is reminding everyone we all have had questionable things happen to us that we may or may not have changed if we could. We learn from our mistakes, hopefully.

I do want to point out that the true definition of mercy is not to be confused with compassion. Mercy is helping a person purely out of love without ever expecting anything in return. It is not given when it is justifiable or worthy. It is given freely. If we all only love those who love us, and only give to those who give to us, then what credit is that to ourselves?