Newbie

[catawhat]

LOL I have enjoyed reading the posts Anyway, I did what I tell people never to do and I picked up an animal without doing ample research first. I'm just glad I found this site. He came from a reptile show I went to with friends of mine who had a table there and they knew the people and said they were trustworthy, though they breed Leopard Geckos more than anything. The breeders are JMG Reptiles out of Ohio, I found out that he is in fact a Irian Jaya and he is now two weeks old. I currently have him in a 20 long but will move him up to a 50 gallon breeder tank until I have a custom enclosure built. I am off to pick up my daughter but I know I will be back to read more shortly. Thanks for all the help

[Blotch]

Hey Zach - I'm not saying this just to dispute your call - I see the point you are making - and I guess to a certain extent you are right - but in the pic you told me not to say I can see the porthole - uhh I can see them. you'd either be blind (no offense to anyone that knows someone that is blind - I'd hate to step on toes) - or not know what you're looking for. In regards to the baby pics - they are really bad pics for the portholes - but even still - you can see the color shift at the lower part of the bands.

In every pic (except #2 and #4) you can see the portholes fairly clearly.

The last pic has poor lighting - and even still you can see them- Just.

The point I'm making is that the eye bands and the portholes are a common traits in Easterns, Probably 99%.

[Lisa]

Alot of them are qld easterns. They are much paler (and bigger than NSW & QLD easterns), and generally have no eye banding.

I think Zach's trying to distinguish between patterns/banding that changes colour to orange, and ones that have distinctive orange side marks that don't appear to be an extension of their bands. Like my Jubby, although we refer to them as his racing stripes rather than portholes :





Having said that, you never know. Jubby had bands as a baby and lost them somewhere along the way.


Welcome Catawhat. I would've said IJ straight up, and a beautiful one at that

[Lucifer_Spades]

I think I see a thread full of Bluey pics who cares 'bout the rest of it.

[Blotch]

Even the green phase Easterns have the portholes/racing stripes.

The QLD Easterns I reckon can't be classified as True easterns - This is my opinion though. With the amount of northerns and easterns - most would more likely be intergrades. Like the American "Easterns".

Your thoughts Lisa?

[Lisa]

Even the green phase Easterns have the portholes/racing stripes.

The QLD Easterns I reckon can't be classified as True easterns - This is my opinion though. With the amount of northerns and easterns - most would more likely be intergrades. Like the American "Easterns".

Your thoughts Lisa?

I think there are differences between QLD easterns and Northerns, but they are 'cosmetic' as in, they look different. But then, that's what it all seems to come down to, doesn't it? That and a scale count. Their insides are still the same. So technically, I think they should all just be Tiliqua, but then you have a southern form, a northern form, an eastern form, a highland and lowland blotched form etc, but not as a separate classification. Oversimplifying perhaps??

QLD easterns and Northern easterns are both bigger than southern skinks, and paler, but that's probably more climactic I think. ie, they get more sun and warmth. Southern blues are stuck sleeping away cold winters, whereas the northern forms can pop over to Surfers or up to Port Douglas all year round

As the classification stands at the moment, I think QLD easterns are more 'eastern' than 'northern', but if I were a genus genie, I'd just group them as northern form blueys, anything from say Lismore up. The thing is but, I don't think northerns and easterns up north would cross over much as QLD easterns are coastal, aren't they? So again, it comes down to them being classed simply on looks, which in turn are determined by their habitat. Oh I don't know

As for American easterns... Well, I believe that decades of breeding different forms such as northerns with easterns, IJs etc has resulted in lizards that personally I do not see them as true easterns. That is, they don't look anything like an Australian Tiliqua Scincoides.

But you know what? How's that different from someone breeding a Vic eastern to a QLD eastern? I mean, they're the same classification right? But how different do they look?!! Our easterns will lose their 'state' identity soon.

Sorry, Catawhat, that has absolutely nothing to do with your gorgeous little fella. I'll go stand in the corner

[Blotch]

I See your point lisa! To be honest - I don't know much about QLD easterns - I hope it was obvious I was merely speculating.

[Zach]

Yeah, I was going to ask...."99% eyebands". Heh, that's nuts....nearly all Northern forms of Easterns have ZERO eye bands, and the only intergrading that takes place is on the great dividing range. It's a tiny, tiny percentage compared to the mass wild populations of pures. The only pure Easterns in the US I trust are Ray's, who are directly from AU. They were illegally brought over, and our animals are the descendents he bred. Also, if an eastern has ever been bred to an IJ, it is not too difficult to tell. However, when bred with a Northern, it's FAR more difficult to tell. There's many more eastern/northern hybrids in the states than IJ hybrids because before IJ's were first imported in the early 90's, Easterns were a dime a dozen and were crossed with Northerns here and there. Then, IJ's were brought in and called "New guinea" blue tongued skinks, which in fact, is a correct name because that's exactly where they came from. It's funny we still call them "Irian Jaya's" because it's not called that anymore! It's just Papua now. Oops, got a little off track, oh well.


Catawhat: How do you know it's an Irian Jaya? Who told you? The only BTS ever correctly identified at a reptile show is a Northern in my experience. You're very lucky if you found someone who was breeding exactly what he knew he had! People just don't know BTS here in the states. I've never seen one in a pet store correctly identified. Not once.

[Leigh]

My guess is a north southeastern IJ from the west, :bs: I'll go now.....

[Marie]

Welcome to the forum, Catawhat! I bet you had no idea that your new addition would raise such a discussion.

[Ray Gurgui]

About 3 or 4 weeks ago on kingsnake, a vender was selling Northern X IJ and was selling them as that ! For $50.00 and was going to be at a show in Ohio, then the next day the add was changed to Northern BTS $100.00 ea.
Now JMG Reptile has some that look just like yours.
Look like a mix of both kinds.

[catawhat]

Well... after all this I called the person I bought him from and he says it is a Northern, not a Irian Jaya so I'm gonna say I don't know and if I ever get another one it will be from a breeder I learn about from HERE! Ball Pythons are my area of knowledge and I thought that having someone I know and trust saying these were good people should have been enough. The breeder seems to know his Leopard Geckos, but NOT BTS. No matter, I love the little guy no matter what he is
He is doing great on his various foods, have tried cat food (Iams), beef, chicken, asparagus, bokchoy, mustard greens, collard greens, bananas, grapes, escarole and yellow squash. Cat food was ok, but it is not something I am going to use unless a dire emergency. The beef/veggie/fruit mixture was chowed down fast!! I am going to go out and buy a couple apple snails to start a colony with. I think he may rival my Savannah in relishing food, lol.

[Blotch]

Honestly - it doesn't matter what he is as long as you are happy with him and love him. You can moan about the fact that he may be a hybrid - but the thing is - unless you're willing to breed him - it shouldn't matter. As stated in past threads - the only reason people get all crazy about hybrids is because America can't get any more Aussie Skinks.

The ONLY reason people would care about breeding Pure lines is if they are in it for the money. I don't believe that anyone that breeds does it for the love of it - especially with the rediculous prices they charge.
I'm not being fooled by that stupid argument. If it was for the love of it - the price wouldn't matter. I'll probably cop a beating over this post - but i'm not fussed, it's the truth.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not having a crack, just stating facts.
If These American breeders that are so worried about the Pure Lines in America were really that worried - they'd sell the pures at a lower price so most people can afford it. This would in turn get more pure lines out there and increase the likeliness of bluey popularity rising, but I guess the power of the dollar is too strong.

You're little guy is gorgeous - I'm glad you love him regardless of his bloodlines - here's to many happy years with your bluey!

[catawhat]

Thanks Blotch Nope, I personally don't care about if he is a hybrid or not and I have no intentions of breeding him in the future. My ball pythons are the only animals I do plan on breeding.
And no offense taken, I myself think too many people are driven by the almighty dollar. And thank you for the compliment, I think he is pretty darn beautiful myself.

[Blotch]

Awesome to hear catawhat!

Let me know what you think is a more "exciting" pet to have (Python or Bluey). My opinion is Bluey - and I've dealt with many herps - Frilled necks are boring unless they get narky, beardies are morons that are entertaining, Childrens, Carpets, and olives (pythons in general) don't do a heap til it's feeding time - and even so it's over in a minute or so. PTS - look good but hide more often than not, where as Blueys are interesting to watch all the time. I keep some of mine together, and watching them interact is quite humerous at times.

[catawhat]

LOL, I will admit that pythons and snakes in general don't have the same interactive level that BTS or some other lizards seem to have or want. However I do have one snake I swear doesn't know he is a snake. He wants to hang out with humans all the time. Snakes will always be my first love and ball pythons are a great way to introduce people who are afraid of reptiles, however I think my Bluey will do that just as well also. My daughter always looks forward to doing an educational show & tell at her school and summer program with our animals. So hopefully she can help educate the next generation on these wonderful animals.
I do hope they are not as addictive as my pythons b/c if so I am in trouble. If only animals counted as dependents when it came time to file taxes!

[Blotch]

Looks like you're in trouble!!!

[boonaen]

LOL I have enjoyed reading the posts Anyway, I did what I tell people never to do and I picked up an animal without doing ample research first. I'm just glad I found this site. He came from a reptile show I went to with friends of mine who had a table there and they knew the people and said they were trustworthy, though they breed Leopard Geckos more than anything. The breeders are JMG Reptiles out of Ohio, I found out that he is in fact a Irian Jaya and he is now two weeks old. I currently have him in a 20 long but will move him up to a 50 gallon breeder tank until I have a custom enclosure built. I am off to pick up my daughter but I know I will be back to read more shortly. Thanks for all the help

this is as far as i got.

as a fellow-noob, i would suggest enjoying the skink. you sound like a reptile addict, so i figure that won't be too hard. i get the feeling that you will find yourself wanting more skinks, at which time you can worry about what species or sub you get.

just let this one be a bluey.

[Marie]

I think you have a beautiful skink, no matter what it is! You will have so much fun with it.

You should post some pictures of your ball pythons.

[Zach]

Honestly - it doesn't matter what he is as long as you are happy with him and love him. You can moan about the fact that he may be a hybrid - but the thing is - unless you're willing to breed him - it shouldn't matter. As stated in past threads - the only reason people get all crazy about hybrids is because America can't get any more Aussie Skinks.

The ONLY reason people would care about breeding Pure lines is if they are in it for the money. I don't believe that anyone that breeds does it for the love of it - especially with the rediculous prices they charge.
I'm not being fooled by that stupid argument. If it was for the love of it - the price wouldn't matter. I'll probably cop a beating over this post - but i'm not fussed, it's the truth.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not having a crack, just stating facts.
If These American breeders that are so worried about the Pure Lines in America were really that worried - they'd sell the pures at a lower price so most people can afford it. This would in turn get more pure lines out there and increase the likeliness of bluey popularity rising, but I guess the power of the dollar is too strong.

You're little guy is gorgeous - I'm glad you love him regardless of his bloodlines - here's to many happy years with your bluey!

WOW. This is pretty much the most backwards and ridiculous statement you have ever made on this forum, my friend. Yep, a lot of us around here breed BTS and built this free site because WE JUST WANT MONEY!!!! And no offense buddy, because I do like you, but since you made this a public statement, I'm going to publicy say that I've lost quite a bit of respect for you. I'm very surprised you would be so ignorant and rude to say something like that after what a lot of us have done for BTS here in the states FREE of charge. Man, I could whip up a great big argument, but it's not worth it to me to argue with you any more.... I'm so tired of your completely inane, thoughtless, ignorant and unfounded comments. It's just a huge slap in the face to the hard work we put into breeding these animals and educating and helping anyone who comes here.

And by the way Blotch, we're getting so RICH by selling our baby BTS! It's such a lucrative hobby. I can't get over how much money we make. I'm glad we're not in this for the love of the species because the money is INSANE! Sorry, couldn't resist that one -- I'm just half laughing, half angry right now.

Blotch, you've said what you think, and now I've said what I think. If you'd like to continue this, please PM me. Do not respond in catawhat's thread.


Hope that post doesn't scare you off, catawhat! It's just that a lot of individuals here (myself included) work hard to keep the species pure, and Blotch here, insults us to no end with comments such as the one you just witnessed (saying anyone who cares about breeding pure species is in it for the money). It's just a blatant and thoughtless insult to this entire forum. It's nothing new from this guy. Hope you don't become scared off; just wanted to let you know.