How to tame? & some weird behaviors

[wermy]

In my personal opinion, reptiles do bond to humans but not in a social "I like this guy" way, more of a "this guy often has food and doesn't hurt me" way. We have three biological parts in your brain - the core "reptilian" brain, which concerns survival and basic needs, the "mammalian" brain, which concerns social interaction and groups, and the "human" brain, which concerns self-awareness and complex thought processes. Humans have all three, social mammals such as dogs and rabbits have the reptilian and mammalian, and reptiles only have the small core reptilian part of a brain. So biologically speaking, reptiles are just not mentally equipped to form meaningful social relationships.

But I won't discount the possibility that some reptile somewhere may have an unexplainable affection for a particular human - impossible things happen every day.

[Richard.C]

one other thing which should be mentioned here,not saying anyone here thinks this,but looking on facebook groups,i have noticed alot of keepers see getting skinks out of cage and playing with them as a certaian nessasity of there care

alot of them going as far as calling there skinks a rescue because previous owner never brought the poor skinks out for daily cuddles ect,in short there calling the skink woefully neglected becsuse of that as they believe that skinks need bonding with
humans like dogs and cats do,or a human imprinted bird does

thats very very wrong,to me,actually harrasing alot of these skinks and forcing them into that kind of thing is actually neglecting the animal

bluetongues make great pets because there very tolerant,but some wont have the tolerance of others

sometimes the keepers are actually more scared of the kept and are the ones that need to learn to trust more

i dont expect any to do what i want,i dont try and force them to be what they arent and i respect them for what they actually are,a reptile,dome will become very friendly,to the point of seemingly want to hang off you,others are more reserved and prefer there own space,i respect that,as like with all animals,they all have different tolerance levrls

[RoryBreaker]

one other thing which should be mentioned here,not saying anyone here thinks this,but looking on facebook groups,i have noticed alot of keepers see getting skinks out of cage and playing with them as a certaian nessasity of there care

Richard,

Real men don't use Facebook.

If I feel the need for that warm fluffy feeling, I pat my dog. I leave my skinks to do what skinks do.

[Saber]

I'm just confused now . . . I wasn't asking how to teach my skink to greet me when I get home, I was asking how to teach him to not get upset when I handle him. He seems OK with me until I try to touch him, then he tries to run away. If I catch him and hold him the right way he squirms and acts distressed. Is this not something that can be unlearned? Is that what you are saying? That if your skink doesn't naturally like handling out of the box that you should just not handle it?

[Fatal_S]

Didn't read all the thread, but two things come to mind.

1) First off, create a proper skink play area. Your skink seems to want to explore and wander, which is great. Your job then is to give him the opportunity to do that without stopping him and trying to control him during his fun time. I used to put towels and random items (boxes/balls/etc) in my bathroom and let them romp around in there. Safe and fun for them.

2) The other thing is he could be uncomfortable being out on the bed with you and be looking for a place to feel safe. Do you let him go under the blankets, or under some towels on the bed?

As for being held, no skink likes it that much. But in your case every time he's trying to do something fun he's being grabbed instead - that can be extremely frustrating for him. Maybe once he's had his chance to romp around for a while he'll be less upset about being constrained and cuddled.

[Richard.C]

saber,no not saying dont hold your skink

what im trying to say is read its signs,if its running away kind of thing ,A do u see that as a sign its trying to flee or B it wants to play tag

if your holding it and its struggling to get out of your grasp,do u see that as A its not wanting to be held or B wants you to have a wrestle

what i mean by leaving them alone is not saying never hold them,its more about being patient and letting them to learn to trust you first,trust is your goal if u want a tame mellow bluey for handling ect

by leaving them alone i mean thongs like let it feel its hides a safe zone,eg dont go ripping hide out in efforts to take skink out of cage,that takes away there feeling of security in there hide,its no longer a safe zone in there eyes

also note ,and i mention this often,to a bluetongue,even long term captives that are tame,being forced out in the open and prevented from going to a safe zone scares them,they dont lose there natural instincts in captivity, and in the wild,being stuck out in the open and feeling threatened leads to a bluey being very defensive,not aggressive,defensive,they are scared and feel cornered,so there forced into getting defensive

outdoors especially,but even indoors,people always say bringing there reps into natural sunlight causes them to go wild,but if u grab an outdoor kept mellow one out of its cage and away from its hides it does the exact same thing,trys to bugger off to find cover as it feels threatened,hence u have to keep grabbing them

its often said nluetongues just love to go exploring when this happens,which in some cases may be true,but alot of cases its the lack of safeness feeling going through there heads,which is why they normally high tail it to the nearest cover to them

its like if your drowning,and u see an easy spot to get out in the distance or a dodgey area alot closer,in the panic most will go for what evers closest

[Saber]

Thanks, that helps a lot. That makes a lot of sense, that he's upset at being prevented from having fun and/or finding somewhere to hide. I am trying to learn how to "think skink," haha. I'll try to make him some play areas with some hides and see if that lets him chill out a bit more and have more fun. And yeah I don't dig him out of hides. The worst I do is if I need to know where he is I poke at the substrate a little until he gets startled and I can see the aspen jump up for a second, haha.

[Richard.C]

yeah,im sure it will be fine,in time if and when theu get used to you,they will often happily climb onto you with out needing to actually pick them up,its the trust thing i guess,sometimes keepers also need to gain more confidence in handling to,whuch can also go along way towards a relaxed skink

i just like to say that u cant expect it from every skink,as some do prefer to be left alone more than others but either way can be very rewarding pets still

[Saber]

Yeah, I have to admit that I am still a bit nervous around him because he likes to try to bite my fingers. -_-() He tries to put a lot of things in his mouth, he's like a baby, haha. He bit my orange shop-vac! Silly.

[Richard.C]

haha

yeah,they can be bitey at odd things

tgats one thing often missed in how to tame threads,is not just letting the bluey learn to trust you but the keeper also gaining confidence and trust in the animal at hand

it generally comes though with some patience on both counts

[Susann]

I was really upset to see the only responses being "stop thinking of them as dogs" or "they don't wanna be touched", when that statement is completely controversial. It was totally not helpful and I still don't know what to do to get mine to be calmer and not run around literally non-stop when outside the tank.

I am very sorry that that part of my advice was not what you wanted to hear and that you see it as totally not helpful. But I did also advice you about the fact that many young skinks are very active and flighty, that's just how some are; you have seemingly chosen to completely ignore that piece of information and instead focus on my advice to not reach out to stroke your skink when you have him out for exploration time.
Since you seem to have one of the skinks who are very active and flighty, you still not knowing "what to do to get mine to be calmer and not run around literally non-stop when outside the tank" I guess is because we have neglected to spell out that the only thing you CAN do is wait for him to get older and calm down, while being very gentle and patient with handling and exploring time.

I think something that is still seriously lacking on this forum is detailed descriptions on how to handle, tame, and enjoy your bluey.

I do not see this as a true statement at all. There may not be many threads about that on the first couple of pages, but if you for example do searches on different word combinations of "handling", "enrichment", "activities", "play", "fun things to do", "what skink likes best", I bet you'll literally find hundreds of posts.

But my goal is for him to like me at least a bit, and to interact with him frequently and happily and lovingly, like any animal, while still respecting all of his boundaries of what upsets him or makes him uncomfortable.

Yes, your skink seems very flighty by your descriptions, but from what I'm reading, it sounds like you already HAVE a skink that likes you at least a bit, that you can interact with as much as his flightiness at this age will allow; "happily and lovingly" on HIS part is debatable --some skinks like their out of the tank exploration time more than others, some skinks will always prefer to be left in their tank and will be noticeably uncomfortable and nervous outside of it; those skinks will take MUCH more time and patience to get them to where you can handle them without stressing them out too much, but it can be done. Your skink at this point does not sound to be this extreme, but there are no guarantees as to which way they will go as they age. You can immensely affect the direction though with gentle patience and by "respecting all of his boundaries of what upsets him or makes him uncomfortable."

I just think you and I see things differently, and I just hope for a different experience out of it than a low-interacting irritable animal who I should be expected to never pet or treat affectionately, and I think it's entirely possible for me to have a relationship with my skink.

I honestly don't think we see things differently at all, I think it's more of a case of you being new to reptile relationships and having certain expectations that I am trying to tell you MAY be unrealistic.
"I just hope for a different experience out of it than a low-interacting irritable animal who I should be expected to never pet or treat affectionately" --are you saying I have implied this? Or something I've said makes you assume this is how MY animals are? I have not in any way said you can't expect to have a relationship with your skink. It's entirely possible. You seem to be reading vast amounts of negativity into my simple suggestion of not petting your skink so much.
When you acquire a skink as a baby your chances are very good of having a good relationship with it. Some skinks tolerate handling and being out in the open very poorly, but most of them are wild caught animals or animals that have not been handled much.

All this aside, I merely wanted to not have to monitor him constantly when out-of-tank and to get him adjusted to me holding him or being near him.

With lots of gentle patience you can get your skink adjusted to you holding him and being near him, but unless you have a smaller, safely enclosed area that he can not escape from, you will not get him to be the kind of pet you can let out without constantly monitoring him.

The great thing about this forum is that newbies to BTS - including myself - can get advice on all our questions. There are people on here who have a HUGE amount of experience and knowledge about BTS and keeping them (including Susann). And they are willing to share with us! YAY!! I personally find this incredibly valuable because reptiles are very very different from us. Most often there will be helpful tips and things to learn on the forum. Take what is helpful to you and if you wish to ignore the rest of the advice, well that's your choice isn't it?

Thank you so much! I don't know about anybody else, but your appreciation and voice of reason meant a lot to me.
DimetroDork, all I ever try to do is give opinions, advice, guidance, support, and to point out things others may not be aware of yet. Although my responses are often long (or very, very long!) I extremely rarely (or never) tell people they must do something a certain way. Take what I give you or leave it. Absolutely your prerogative. You can certainly disagree with me too, but in this case I believe you are either misunderstanding what I'm saying, reading things into my statements that aren't there, or just not wanting to hear it. Or all of the above...

We have three biological parts in your brain - the core "reptilian" brain, which concerns survival and basic needs, the "mammalian" brain, which concerns social interaction and groups, and the "human" brain, which concerns self-awareness and complex thought processes. Humans have all three, social mammals such as dogs and rabbits have the reptilian and mammalian, and reptiles only have the small core reptilian part of a brain. So biologically speaking, reptiles are just not mentally equipped to form meaningful social relationships.

That was extremely well put! Amen to that. The quicker people realize Wermy's statement right here, the faster THEY ( meaning the people) will form happy, loving, meaningful social relationships with their reptiles.

Thanks, that helps a lot. That makes a lot of sense, that he's upset at being prevented from having fun and/or finding somewhere to hide. I am trying to learn how to "think skink," haha. I'll try to make him some play areas with some hides and see if that lets him chill out a bit more and have more fun.

Kudos to you Saber for taking the advice/opinion given, even though it may not have been what you wanted to hear, and applying the parts that you found helpful!

[DimetroDork]

Having been away from this site for a few weeks, Gulliver is calming down slightly and I've just done what I thought was right in order to get him to be more comfortable with me.

To respond to you, Susann, I did read negativity into it which was fault on my part. It just felt as though a lot was assumed about me by you and how I thought about my animal, even though I did not ever view my skink as a dog, nor did I have pre-existing expectations for him to be automatically affectionate. I didn't mean to imply that I thought this, as I'm sure you didn't mean to imply to touch your reptiles as infrequently as possible. As a newer owner, I didn't know that being so flighty was normal, and I thought perhaps it was a sign of fear or irritation, since he seemed to very much disliking being near me initially.

I just felt almost condescended to, in a way, and it felt as though you thought of me as totally new to what a reptile is and totally inexperienced with them in general. That was probably completely my misjudgment, but it's how I felt in the moment. Apologies all around if I was totally wrong about that. It was just your phrasing and my misunderstanding.

I did value your information about not reaching out to touch him, mostly because I didn't do this very much at all to begin with and I already agreed with you. I just chose to address the other parts of what you said because I'm very passionate about people viewing reptiles as cold, robotic beings and I wish for that never to be how someone thinks of them, and I thought that might be how you felt. I think it's entirely individualistic as I said, and I just wanted to know how to make letting Gulliver out less of a constant chore, and eventually let me have the opportunity to know how affectionate he really is or isn't.

[Susann]

I really appreciate that. I think you're absolutely right, there were probably faulty assumptions made on both parts.

You know, when we are answering people's questions, as moderators we don't always just keep in mind the one person whose questions we're answering; a lot of times, I at least, answer while thinking about the many others who will be reading the thread, a nebulous "general public".
Sometimes there are things that come up over and over, and lately it seems we've had quite a few people asking for help with skinks who won't stop huffing when their owners just want to pet them. I'm guilty of trying to address others in a way that would make them realize that not all lizards will take to it, and maybe a different way of thinking and treating our skinks would be better. So I was not just talking to you, and now in hindsight I understand how that made you feel like it was condescending towards you. That was not my meaning, and I apologize.

I guarantee you I do not think of reptiles as cold and robotic and especially not blue tongue skinks; I've spent quite a bit of time over the years taking my boa, gecko, and skinks to schools and other groups to let people experience the amazing creatures they are. I've helped a few people with their fear of snakes. I believe strongly in letting young kids have the opportunity to positively experience reptiles.
I have great relationships with my reptiles, but it dis on their terms. Which means some of them get handled much less than others; I have two who get very stressed by handling and do not enjoy being out of their tanks; out of my love and concern for them, I try to keep their stress down. I still work on it when I have quiet moments in my home, to try to teach them that being out is safe and can be fun.

Im a breeder, I have too many skinks to spend time with each individually every day, it doesn't even happen each week, and that's OK with me. That does not mean I don't think you can't have an amazing, deep relationship with Gulliver, and it doesn't mean I haven't had a skink in my life that spent a large amount of time with me, and who stole a huge chunk of my heart.

Glad Gulliver (cute name!) has shown progress. I am confident in your ability to develop a beautiful relationship with him. We are here if you have any questions.
If you work on not taking statements too personally, I'll work on being more considerate ...and maybe staying away from the forums when I already feel frustrated

Gulliver will calm down, it may take some time though. But he'll get there.

[DimetroDork]

I really appreciate that. I think you're absolutely right, there were probably faulty assumptions made on both parts.

You know, when we are answering people's questions, as moderators we don't always just keep in mind the one person whose questions we're answering; a lot of times, I at least, answer while thinking about the many others who will be reading the thread, a nebulous "general public".
Sometimes there are things that come up over and over, and lately it seems we've had quite a few people asking for help with skinks who won't stop huffing when their owners just want to pet them. I'm guilty of trying to address others in a way that would make them realize that not all lizards will take to it, and maybe a different way of thinking and treating our skinks would be better. So I was not just talking to you, and now in hindsight I understand how that made you feel like it was condescending towards you. That was not my meaning, and I apologize.

I guarantee you I do not think of reptiles as cold and robotic and especially not blue tongue skinks; I've spent quite a bit of time over the years taking my boa, gecko, and skinks to schools and other groups to let people experience the amazing creatures they are. I've helped a few people with their fear of snakes. I believe strongly in letting young kids have the opportunity to positively experience reptiles.
I have great relationships with my reptiles, but it dis on their terms. Which means some of them get handled much less than others; I have two who get very stressed by handling and do not enjoy being out of their tanks; out of my love and concern for them, I try to keep their stress down. I still work on it when I have quiet moments in my home, to try to teach them that being out is safe and can be fun.

Im a breeder, I have too many skinks to spend time with each individually every day, it doesn't even happen each week, and that's OK with me. That does not mean I don't think you can't have an amazing, deep relationship with Gulliver, and it doesn't mean I haven't had a skink in my life that spent a large amount of time with me, and who stole a huge chunk of my heart.

Glad Gulliver (cute name!) has shown progress. I am confident in your ability to develop a beautiful relationship with him. We are here if you have any questions.
If you work on not taking statements too personally, I'll work on being more considerate ...and maybe staying away from the forums when I already feel frustrated

Gulliver will calm down, it may take some time though. But he'll get there.

Awesome, I am totally sorry for my touchiness. And I really appreciate you apologizing too. I'm sure I overreacted. I think I was also in a state of worry - I didn't want it to be the case that my skink was just always going to avoid me or be a chore to have outside the tank. I worry a whole lot about him, so I probably took it out on you badly.
I'm glad that you don't view them like that, I just happen to know a wealth of people who do, and it very much upsets me.

I'm happy that you are so respectful towards your animals - I try to be the same by not touching Gully whenever he appears to not want to be touched and giving him space or a place to hide while outside the tank. I think that it's great that you respect them no matter how they act in the moment, and again I'm sorry for reading negativity into what you said about them.

Thank you, also, for your kind words about Gulliver. I'm sure that things will improve in time as well. They already have, and I appreciate your advice and the forum's advice.