Do I need D3?

[Scincoides]

I was just thinking that its been a while since we saw a good ol Dakota drawing

[Susann]

But you have to consider that as far as UVB rays go, the only sunlight that really counts is the unobstructed light, so out of the rays you drew, only the space that I have indicated on the bottom of the tank is what would count:

noon.png

And I guarantee you that you would only get that at the bottom of the tank for maybe an hour.

[Dakota]

Yes, I'm aware of that. I meant to put 25% of their tank gets UV, not sunlight.. my apologies. And oddly enough that is where they bask most of the time (assuming it is the hottest part). Sometimes you will find them right up again the glass, but it is not often.

ETA: I edited the first post to what I mean to put.

[critterguy]

Some links for everyone who is curious

http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatrepti ... wRdiPldV8E
Different species differ even in a genus in ability to utilize dietary D3. I think that Tiliqua obtain most of their vitD3 in the wild from dietary sources.


http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatrepti ... wRdjvldV8G
Evidence that basking can be a way for animals to self medicate with Vitamin D3. Note that chameleons in this study were offered other sources of warmth for thermoregulatory purposes. I do not know of anyone keeping any chameleons other than pygmy species without UV light but I do wonder if it is possible-seeing that day geckos and certain anole species(Anolis sagrei which makes total sense, see above) have been reared for generations without it.

[Dakota]

Oh, I am now understanding what you are getting across, critterguy. You are saying that regardless if they get a bunch of the sun's rays, dietary vitamin D3 should always be given, no matter if they had full access to 100% pure UVB. But my question to that is, how do they get such thing in the wild? By eating small basking lizards in hopes to get the unprocessed D3?

[Dood]

Nice graphics

5 to 6 hours of basking in 105'F (36'C) sunlight seems a bit long to me. I've noticed my skink basks maybe 2 or 3 hours a day - basically in the morning, after eating and after running around the floor - and then he goes to ground. The gradient in his 4 foot (130cm) tank is 105'Fto 68'F (36'C to 18'C)

I think you are underestimating animals ability to self medicate, if they can self thermoregulate to prevent food rotting in their gut they should be able to do the same to prevent MBD.

[Dakota]

I have noticed that they aim to have an external body temperature that of around 90-100 (Virginia likes 100+, so I decided to give her a 115 degree basking spot, and she loves everything about it. Just on an 80 degree day, outside she gets a 120 degree basking area that she really enjoys.

So, if the assumption is I'm under - supplementing, I shall provide more calcium or rearrange their caging arrangements and see if they continue to bask often.

Thanks everyone.

[Tom]

Great links critter guy. Very interesting stuff there. That is the first I've heard of that.

[Tom]

Richard and Susann, Thanks for the insight.

Seems to me the sensible safe bet is to give them some dietary D3 one way or another. UV bulbs and sunshine can just be a bonus.

This has been a great thread for me Dakota. Thanks for starting it.

[Richard.C]

Yep,dietry supplementation is very important,especially if u make your own mixes of food

[Lea]

Nice graphics

5 to 6 hours of basking in 105'F (36'C) sunlight seems a bit long to me. I've noticed my skink basks maybe 2 or 3 hours a day - basically in the morning, after eating and after running around the floor - and then he goes to ground. The gradient in his 4 foot (130cm) tank is 105'Fto 68'F (36'C to 18'C)

I think you are underestimating animals ability to self medicate, if they can self thermoregulate to prevent food rotting in their gut they should be able to do the same to prevent MBD.

Dakota, because your cages are glass they risk overheating if you expose them to the sun more than the amount you are. They are not ideal caging requirements for sun exposure and you could do far more harm than good if you increase exposure.

Supplementing their diets would be the best way to go as you can control the amount you give and know you are giving enough without putting them at any risk.

If you change your set ups entirely to one appropriate for being in an outdoor environment, you could change how and when you supplement. For now, supplement as if they were living indoors.