Possible MBD from breeder's care...

[sekizan]

Hi.

I received my BTS in late September. He was born in early July. The breeder I got him from said he didn't provide his skinks with UVB, and seemed knowledgeable, saying the calcium supplement was much more important than artificial light. He also exclusively fed dog food, and claimed it had all the skink needed. I knew someone who got a skink from this man, and he has been breeding for years, so I shrugged it off, and decided I would do better once I got him, regardless of what he said. At the time, there were no problems with the skink.

Now that I've had him for some time, he's grown a lot and he's healthy and active, eats well, does not seem in pain, moves fine. But he exhibits some signs of MBD, namely a dip immediately after his hips to his tail. I have provided him with UVB and calcium, as well as used the food chart for his food, but this problem is still there.

Could this be MBD be caused by the breeder that had him for the first few months of his life? I've changed his light bulb, and regularly provide the calcium. I'm not sure how the problem could be with my husbandry, although if it is, I want to change it immediately.

I suppose I just want to know if this could be inevitable damage done by the breeder? And if so, I'll have even more reason to not go back to that breeder... I wasn't pleased with him, although the skink himself is beautiful.

Without any issues beyond this bump, could this be MBD?

Thanks for any replies.

[Susann]

The only way to know for sure if it's MBD would be to have a veterinarian do an x-ray to check the bone density. It would be impossible to say exactly when it would've occurred --but keep in mind that it's not just the amount of calcium he ingests, it also has to do with other factors, as explained in this THREAD.
Feeding chicken as a primary source of protein has also been known to cause cases of MBD.

There are also many cases of skinks developing a "hump" right below the hip area if they have a tendency to frequently bend backwards when attempting to climb the walls of their enclosures. So it's not necessarily MBD every time a skink develops a strange hump, but it is always good to be on the safe side and go over what you are feeding to make sure deficiencies aren't developing.

[sekizan]

The only way to know for sure if it's MBD would be to have a veterinarian do an x-ray to check the bone density. It would be impossible to say exactly when it would've occurred --but keep in mind that it's not just the amount of calcium he ingests, it also has to do with other factors, as explained in this THREAD.
Feeding chicken as a primary source of protein has also been known to cause cases of MBD.

There are also many cases of skinks developing a "hump" right below the hip area if they have a tendency to frequently bend backwards when attempting to climb the walls of their enclosures. So it's not necessarily MBD every time a skink develops a strange hump, but it is always good to be on the safe side and go over what you are feeding to make sure deficiencies aren't developing.

Thank you for the reply and the link. I skimmed it but I'll give it a more thorough read over in a bit.

I've only fed him chicken once - it was boiled, and he didn't like it, so I didn't go back to it.
He gets collard greens and mustard greens, and acorn squash, in addition to Pure Balance dog food... I mix up what kind of Pure Balance I give him, but I usually go for the ones with higher percentages of protein.

He also gets a hard boiled egg occasionally, and even less often, a raw one.

Thanks again for the reply. Would it be beneficial for me to post pictures?
I'm planning on bringing him to the vet soon, but there are no exotic vets near me, so I have to plan a trip 3+ hours away for it. It makes things a little difficult with work, but its in the plans for him, mostly as a check up, but now that this concern has been raised, I'll likely ask for x-rays and talk about the possibility of MBD for him.

[Scotts1au]

are you able to post a photo? Some blueys can be born with a defect in that area which can be from how they were squashed up in the mother, it can get more pronounced as the bluey gets older. Blueys that are a bit fat can sometimes have that appearance - some store fat differently like people. Other causes include prior infections (and subsequent calcification), tail damage or even constipation can create a hump in the area. Some have this appearance for a short time i.e during mating season due to swelling of the testes. Others can get some swelling if they have damaged the area due to climbing the enclosure walls, being bitten by another bluey etc.

Be careful with diets high in leaf vegetables - they can be high in Phosphorus and Nitrates.

[sekizan]

I can't attach them since they're too large.
Here's a link to them.

http://imgur.com/2lZDhGi
http://imgur.com/BJgEXj8

[starscream3232]

Looks similar to another skink I've seen. It has the same dip behind the hips. It was caused by folic acid during development which caused the defect. I don't use uv on my skinks. I feed primarily grain free dog food supplemented with cal/d3. They breed and reproduce with no issues.

[sekizan]

Looks similar to another skink I've seen. It has the same dip behind the hips. It was caused by folic acid during development which caused the defect. I don't use uv on my skinks. I feed primarily grain free dog food supplemented with cal/d3. They breed and reproduce with no issues.

If this was the case, is it anything bad or harmful I should be concerned about? Or just a cosmetic flaw? Of course, his health comes first and foremost.

Also, is this common to not use UV? Could I pull the bulb safely?
Thanks for the reply, by the way.

[starscream3232]

I know many keepers that don't use uv. Some of them have skinks that are 25+ years old that have never been exposed to uv and are perfect in every way. The calcium you're using does it have vitamin d3 in it? They need the d3 to absorb calcium. Most of the skinks I've seen with mbd have kinks all over their bodies. Mbd does happen over night. Months and years of improper diet will cause it.

[sekizan]

I know many keepers that don't use uv. Some of them have skinks that are 25+ years old that have never been exposed to uv and are perfect in every way. The calcium you're using does it have vitamin d3 in it? They need the d3 to absorb calcium. Most of the skinks I've seen with mbd have kinks all over their bodies. Mbd does happen over night. Months and years of improper diet will cause it.

Yes, it's with d3. I don't even buy calcium without d3 - I remember reading an article a while back when everyone was big on "don't give too much d3, it'll cause harm," that explained in detail why its absolutely fine to just buy the calc w/ d3 instead of without. So I'm always sure to give calcium with d3.

[sekizan]

I posted this on a facebook group. Someone replied and said it looks like hypervitaminosis-D leading to hypercalcemia, and recommended a vet visit (of course) and ceasing any D3 supplementation, changing to dog food that doesn't have D3 in it either (looked it up - Pure Balance supplements it)...

Thoughts?

[starscream3232]

I just saw that. I tagged the person who has a similar looking skink with that defect. Hopefully she can shed some light on this.

[Scotts1au]

Not sure about the hyper vitamin thing. I would try feeding less initially and see if the shape changes. Try a loaf style dog food. There is possibility this is related to fat deposition.

[sekizan]

Not sure about the hyper vitamin thing. I would try feeding less initially and see if the shape changes. Try a loaf style dog food. There is possibility this is related to fat deposition.

I'm sorry, loaf style dog food?

[sekizan]

I just saw that. I tagged the person who has a similar looking skink with that defect. Hopefully she can shed some light on this.

Thanks!

[Ohgeez]

Not sure about the hyper vitamin thing. I would try feeding less initially and see if the shape changes. Try a loaf style dog food. There is possibility this is related to fat deposition.

I'm sorry, loaf style dog food?

I think Scott's talking about the pet meat rolls you buy at stores

[Levon78]

Very cool.

[andrewbasiago24]

Okay, good answers, but who do people who want, for example, software for their veterinary clinic—software developed exclusively for their veterinary clinic—go to? I know it disrupts the conversation a bit, but these types of topics are never discussed, and they're very important. Does anyone know?