Alternate/Defective scale pattern

[2500diesel]

One of my 2013 babies came out with a very strange scale pattern on the lower portion of his back. Where a normal BTS scale pattern is a more or less continuous set of rows from nose towards tail, in this little guy, the scales suddenly diminish in size and increase in number, almost looking like a day gecko scale size and pattern. I was hoping he would shed out of it, but at this point, it's permanent.
Has anyone seen this in any of their offspring?
Oh, BTW, his name is "Digicam"

[donkeybuff]

Could you post a picture? Sounds interesting!

[2500diesel]

Brand new to the forum and have no clue how to post a pic, but I'll see what I can do.

[2500diesel]

Actually, considering how ridiculously hard it's been to register and navigate this site, I don't see pics happening any time soon.

[RoryBreaker]

Actually, considering how ridiculously hard it's been to register and navigate this site, I don't see pics happening any time soon.

You serious?

If this forum has you confused, get a photobucket account, once pictures are uploaded, it's the as easy as cut n pasting the [img] code into the thread.
The bonus is then you can use that code on any forum where you might want to post pictures too.

[Richard.C]

Pics or it never happened,haha

If it was born with pattern like that it will hold that,not go to normal with a few sheds,would be great to see a pic,if i can post pics anyone should be able to,im about as techno savvy as a pair of flip flops (thongs) for aussie folk

[2500diesel]

Dakota PMed me and I sent her a pic to post. I was just annoyed last night at the complexities of registering. I was surprised it was so complicated to register for a non government, non security related website.
But enough about that, lets talk BTS!
I currently have 1.1.3 bts, the .3 being last years offspring, but my female is gravid again, and days away from delivery at this point. I've raised and bred numerous animals over the years, including Blackhead Pythons, Womas, Frilled dragons, Rhacodactylus geckos, Discus, etc. Now I'm concentrating on BTS.

[Richard.C]

Hehe,dakotas a nice chick like that,now just waiting for her to post pic,lol

You have a liking for aussie/south pacific type animals i see,cant blame you,i forgot to ask what species of bts do u keep?

Oh and welcome to the forum,if u need tips on how to post pics on here just sing out and i can give u the basics

[Dakota]

Here you go, Jeff.

scale.jpg

Dakota PMed me and I sent her a pic to post.

I'm actually a "him", but no worries.

[Ophidiophile]

Has anyone seen this in any of their offspring?

This is one of this year's Northerns - check out the undivided head scales. He was born premature at 6 g. but has done great and has now more than doubled his weight.

Quasi7-6-14 (1 of 1).jpg

[2500diesel]

Thanks, Dakota, you're a mensch. Sorry about the gender mixup.
Richard, I don't discriminate, I just didn't mention them all. The octopus was interesting as a pet (Kept escaping . . .), and so was the baby possum we raised.
To be honest, I'm uncertain just what subspecies mine are, and I may have crossbred, as my male and female are very different in appearance. I saw the discussion on head scales, and I'll take a look one day. Honestly, I don't care that much. Snausage (Male) and Grumpy (Fem) are healthy and seem happy, and that's the important part. They've been hand fed and raised and are very personable animals for reptiles, I enjoy having them.

[Seadation]

Welcome! This is a great site with a lot of great information. Don't know if I misunderstood your post but If you choose to crossbreed between species that is entirely up to you but please specify that they are hybrids if you sell them and be aware that this will ultimately hurt the US population of blue tongues in the long run. I'm sure others with more experience can chime I about this.
Ron

[2500diesel]

So Grumpy dropped four perfect little babies last night/this morning.
WooHoo!
I repeat:
WooHoo!

Yes, they are hybrids, according to eye scale pattern. Yes, of course I will give their correct pedigree when and if I sell any of them.
Again . . .
WooHoo!

[Richard.C]

Any chance of pics of the parents and babies,im sure that dakota lass want mind posting them for you,haha,sorry dakota,we might be able to tell you exactly what the parents are,pic above looks ij ish

[Dakota]

im sure that dakota lass want mind posting for you,haha,sorry dakota

I swear, I get called a girl more often than not... I've gotten used to since joining the online reptile community.

But yes - I don't mind posting for you again.

[2500diesel]

Any chance of pics of the parents and babies,im sure that dakota lass want mind posting them for you,haha,sorry dakota,we might be able to tell you exactly what the parents are,pic above looks ij ish

Yeah, Richard, she's good that way.
Dakota, I am sorry!. I had no idea and I know a girl named Dakota, soo . . .

Sure, I'll get some pics this afternoon.
Mention was made earlier about the possibility that I'm crossbreeding, and I wanted to address that issue. it is possible, even likely, that I'm crossing IJ and Northern. This may result in a dilution of the gene pool many years from now. These animals are rare, and basically unsexable except by ultrasound. Therefore captive breedings are rare events
It is my opinion that any animals that can increase the diversity of the gene pool should be encouraged to breed. The general public wouldn't know a Northen from a Merauke at gunpoint. Most people don't even know what a skink is. I told my coworker that my skink had babies. His response: "That's your lizard, right?"
It might be different if there were a larger population outside of Australia.
Anyway, pics to come.

[Fatal_S]

Blue tongues are not a rare species in the USA. There are thousands imported every year, and hundreds of the Australian species produced by dedicated breeders (thousands if you count the hobbyist breeders who just throw animals together). I've found blue tongues in tiny backwoods town pet shops, and in a big city there are always a few available. Northerns, IJs, and Meraukes are the three most common blue tongue skink in the USA.

And if they were rare, that would be even more reason to keep the bloodlines pure, not muddied by crossbreeding. You don't risk ruining bloodlines you're unlikely to get another chance at. There's a reason people aren't crossbreeding the species that are actually rare (blotchies, shinglebacks, centrals).

And as for the general public, no, most don't know the difference between a merauke and a northern. They rely on the breeders they're trusting to know stuff like that.

Honestly, I don't care what you do. There are enough breeders in the USA who care about their bloodlines that someone looking for a pure species can find it. Yes, I feel bad for someone who goes for a CBB animal (most just hit a pet shop) and gets a mutt anyways, but only a few customers will honestly care/be hurt by it. There's thousands of hobbyists in the USA who breed just to breed - I've accepted that some will produce hybrids. But your argument for it makes no sense in the USA, where BTS are one of the more common pet reptile species.

[2500diesel]

Melanie, my experience has been different than yours as regards BTS availability. My area, almost a million people, has three decent pet stores. I am in two of them often enough to know what is in their respective reptile rooms at any one time, and I can tell you that I see maybe four BTS a year, and one or two will be so fresh off the boat they have parasites.

The argument regarding crossing has valid points, but only depending upon your goal. Since I found this website, I am in awe of some of the absolutely gorgeous animals some of you have in your care. Someday I may have the opportunity to have separate bloodlines, possibly from offspring of yours or someone reading this. Based on what I've seen so far, I think there is enough room for both a pure bloodline, gorgeous animal for the person interested in continuing the breed, and a healthy, captive bred animal, correctly represented as a cross, for the person looking for a pet. If nothing else, every animal I sell ( one so far, 2013, extremely we'll vetted.) is one less wild caught animal necessary to satisfy demand.

I sent Dakota a batch of photos earlier. I'll be interested in your opinions.
Jeff

[Richard.C]

Northerns and ijs are both far from rare in the usa,both are commonly bred plus ij,s still come in as imported wildcaughts,just because they arent in your local petshops doesnt mean they are rare,seems alot of petshops get wildcaughts in to sell anyways as they get them cheap and make a tidy profit for what they sell them for,remember petshops want to make money,there a business

You will probably find it easier to sell pure species to ,anyways im glad you want to be honest with what you produce,looking forward to seeing pics of the adults and others,your little one above doesnt look like any ij/northern cross ive seen before,so im interested to see parents,if anything i was thinking ij and a gigas subspecies,time will tell