Herp Vet says never to feed skinks cat/dog food

[Dan]

Dog food is probably the one thing that I use for every meal, with a revolving assortment of vegetables, leafy greens, insects, thawed rodents, and fruit mixed in as the mood strikes.
Having established that canned food is a time-tested staple that has worked for many people, what are the ingedients/characteristics of a good dog food intended for BTS consumption? I would imagine that variety--both of the dog food itself and all the other things that get fed to a skink--would go a long ways toward evening out potential excesses/deficiencies.
Is it beneficial to mix up the protein sources (beef, chicken, turkey, pork, lamb, rabbit, tuna, salmon, bison, venison, duck, etc.) or can I get similarly positive results without the expense associated with some of this variety? Whole rodents are sometimes recommended because you get nutrition from the bones and organs that might be less present in lean meat. What should I look for as far as ingredients on canned food to reap some of these benefits?

[Lea]

Manah, these hobbyists, as you have called them, have usually many more years of experience than ten vets and while it's worth seeking professional advice for the more complex things, (where the "hobbyists" can not touch, see close up or really identify problems), these hobbyists can actually offer a wealth of knowledge that vets can only speculate, for they have little or no experience in the field. It's all very well having the qualification, but it can still be meaningless when it comes to such a specialised area. Many vets don't even treat reptiles at their practises and will refer on to a visiting specialist or even, in the case of my own vet, phone those hobbyists which you are so quick to disregard, asking for their "expert" opinion!

Learn some respect, for your own sake, or none of these expert, well researched and well learned keepers will want to help you in the future. It was meant as a joke before, but unless you acknowledge that the links you refer to we're written by those you chastise, you will quickly make yourself very unwelcome. There is a wealth of knowledge here, if you can humble yourself enough to accept it.

[El Lobo]

Is it beneficial to mix up the protein sources (beef, chicken, turkey, pork, lamb, rabbit, tuna, salmon, bison, venison, duck, etc.) or can I get similarly positive results without the expense associated with some of this variety? Whole rodents are sometimes recommended because you get nutrition from the bones and organs that might be less present in lean meat. What should I look for as far as ingredients on canned food to reap some of these benefits?

My opinion is that I would avoid salmon and more particularly tuna. Both have been shown to cause steatitis (yellow fat disease) in cats even though they are able to tolerate a high level of fish as part of their diet. Hepatic lipidosis has also been implicated. Additionally, over feeding of fatty rodents can have the same result.

[Red Ink AUS]

Unless the Vet specialises in Reptiles I will always trust the word of experienced heptoculturist over the vets word... There are very few vets in the world that specialises in reptiles. Just because they are a vet doesn't mean they know jack about reptile husbandry....

[Rani-May]

Unless the Vet specialises in Reptiles I will always trust the word of experienced heptoculturist over the vets word... There are very few vets in the world that specialises in reptiles. Just because they are a vet doesn't mean they know jack about reptile husbandry....

Im lucky enough to live near a vet that specialises in reptiles and birds and surprisingly says quite a few things different to many people on the forum. but i still like to take on peoples opinions, sum it all up and decide myself

[Emz3]

I'm with Rani-May! I haven't needed to take my skinks to the the vet yet, but I am lucky enough to have an AWESOME exotic vet 30 minutes from me! I even have a 24 hour exotic ER within an hour of me! When I was doing me research right after I got my two BTS, I found this site. I talked to my exotic vet, but they also pointed me here and one other website. (http://www.anapsid.org/bluetong.html) I also contacted a local reptile rescue...they also pointed me to this site. I take everything on here with a grain on salt. Nothing is gospel, nothing is set in stone! Until I actually see some real studies with blood tests, and control groups and such, I'm not gonna take anything as "fact" but I'm also not gonna get my panties in a wad about anything that is said here or anywhere else! With all due respect, I don't like the fact that people are throwing around things as "fact" when they are solely just observations. Observations are incredibly important, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't make them facts. I have found this site and this forum to be the best resource on the web and I'm so glad I've found it! But it's also about having a brain in your head and doing your own research and making your own decisions.

We are still caring for these creatures in an unnatural environment and feeding them an unnatural diet with unnatural lighting. They hear unnatural sounds, smell unnatural smells and are confronted with unnatural experiences every day. Regardless of this, we all do the best for our skinks. We ALL do the absolute best we can to provide them with the best. That's all you can do, but it will never be what mother nature can provide.

[Rani-May]

I'm with Rani-May! I haven't needed to take my skinks to the the vet yet, but I am lucky enough to have an AWESOME exotic vet 30 minutes from me! I even have a 24 hour exotic ER within an hour of me! When I was doing me research right after I got my two BTS, I found this site. I talked to my exotic vet, but they also pointed me here and one other website. (http://www.anapsid.org/bluetong.html) I also contacted a local reptile rescue...they also pointed me to this site. I take everything on here with a grain on salt. Nothing is gospel, nothing is set in stone! Until I actually see some real studies with blood tests, and control groups and such, I'm not gonna take anything as "fact" but I'm also not gonna get my panties in a wad about anything that is said here or anywhere else! With all due respect, I don't like the fact that people are throwing around things as "fact" when they are solely just observations. Observations are incredibly important, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't make them facts. I have found this site and this forum to be the best resource on the web and I'm so glad I've found it! But it's also about having a brain in your head and doing your own research and making your own decisions.

We are still caring for these creatures in an unnatural environment and feeding them an unnatural diet with unnatural lighting. They hear unnatural sounds, smell unnatural smells and are confronted with unnatural experiences every day. Regardless of this, we all do the best for our skinks. We ALL do the absolute best we can to provide them with the best. That's all you can do, but it will never be what mother nature can provide.

Hear, hear! lol

[El Lobo]

I'm with Rani-May! I haven't needed to take my skinks to the the vet yet, but I am lucky enough to have an AWESOME exotic vet 30 minutes from me! I even have a 24 hour exotic ER within an hour of me! When I was doing me research right after I got my two BTS, I found this site. I talked to my exotic vet, but they also pointed me here and one other website. (http://www.anapsid.org/bluetong.html) I also contacted a local reptile rescue...they also pointed me to this site.

It is a positive to have access to suitably qualified exotic vets for those times when things can go wrong but the question that needs to be asked of these "AWESOME" exotic vets is: how much specific experience do they have with BTS. This is a nascent hobby and given that no species of BTS is native to North America, just how much experience can these vets have?

I take everything on here with a grain on salt. Nothing is gospel, nothing is set in stone! Until I actually see some real studies with blood tests, and control groups and such, I'm not gonna take anything as "fact" but I'm also not gonna get my panties in a wad about anything that is said here or anywhere else! With all due respect, I don't like the fact that people are throwing around things as "fact" when they are solely just observations. Observations are incredibly important, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't make them facts. I have found this site and this forum to be the best resource on the web and I'm so glad I've found it! But it's also about having a brain in your head and doing your own research and making your own decisions.

Do you not think the above is just a tad disingenuous? Could you be more specific with the "facts" "that people are throwing around"? If you only take everything on here "with a grain of salt", why do you bother coming at all if you are of the belief that no facts can be gained? What would you be looking for in blood tests? How would you establish a control group and under what conditions would they be kept? Studies, other than field studies, are more likely to produce biased results as the animals will not be kept in a natural environment. The basic element of a field study is observation providing anecdotal evidence.If you aren't aware of how behaviour is altered in study groups then I can suggest a human study conducted by Elton Mayo known as the Hawthorne Experiment as a case. Read the critiques of the experiment and see how biased data was manipulated to fit the predilection of those conducting the experiment.

We are still caring for these creatures in an unnatural environment and feeding them an unnatural diet with unnatural lighting. They hear unnatural sounds, smell unnatural smells and are confronted with unnatural experiences every day. Regardless of this, we all do the best for our skinks. We ALL do the absolute best we can to provide them with the best. That's all you can do, but it will never be what mother nature can provide.

If you really believe the above then it must beggar the question why do we keep them when it is obvious they can't be enjoying the experience?

It is the attitude that has been so prevalent throughout this thread (and others in the past) of those who can tell their experience of BTS by looking at their watch that has seen the departure of so many of our well-respected and vastly experienced members. These keepers and breeders are challenged by inexperienced newbies who refute the information they are offered; net result we all lose out.

I have only been a carer for four and a half years so I don't consider myself very experienced, but I do know what a BTS looks like in their natural environment. To see them live and breed I only have to walk out my door as Blotchies live in my backyard. What tends to get up my nose is when a newbie living 12,000kms from the nearest wild bluey but who may have read a magazine article and a care sheet and has never seen a BTS in the wild then feels free to offer advice on matters such as diet and behaviour. I can only begin to imagine how it makes those really experienced members feel when they also get treated in this manner.

[Rani-May]

El Lobo - everything that has been said throughout this post is the exact reason why i myself gather ALL information and then decide what I think is right. i take info from here, from several other websites, from a guy ive known my entire life who has kept and bred skinks and vets. Then i take what i know myself from having skinks my entire life as well. It just all needs to be summed up i think. but thats my opinion. The guy i know that has owned many skinks his entire life I generally do not agree with on most things, such as, he thinks they need no supplement, i use supplement, no unnatural heating, i use heat lamps, or lighting when i take my skinks outside every couple days for half hour in the sun, feeds things theyd only find in the wild,where I make food mixes from good quality ingredients etc etc, thats the main reason i dont rely on just a handful of breeders. I am DEFINITELY not saying i dont take it in, ive taken in so much from this site because people are so knowledgeable on here, but there is no way i would rely solely on just their advice. Like i said, ill ask people on here, then ill visit other sites, then call a handful of vets i know that work with reptiles or have studied them.

I must say, im obsessed with this site. Its fascinating seeing everyones different views and how differently people look after their beautiful pets. I have found some people on here biased to what they do and how they raise their skinks, but so be it. Still take on what they say. Im very open minded about it and learning new things from this site every day even though I myself have always owned different kinds of skinks.

Did i mention i love this site lol

[Bluish]

This has been a problem on several herp sites El Lobo . It's really sad to see these pools of information dry up because a few hard headed newbs can't see beyond their own need to be contrarian.
A few pages back there was a perfect point to lock this thread. All points had been made but I guess some felt the pot needed a bit more of a stir

[Rani-May]

This has been a problem on several herp sites El Lobo . It's really sad to see these pools of information dry up because a few hard headed newbs can't see beyond their own need to be contrarian.
A few pages back there was a perfect point to lock this thread. All points had been made but I guess some felt the pot needed a bit more of a stir

I dont see it as people..or newbs... being hot headed or such, some people may take it too seriously, but the point of a forum is to share opinions on certain topics or to seek out information. its up to each individual to take it how they see it, if people see it as facts, so be it, if people see it as bull, so be it, if people see it as suggestions to take on board, so be it. This should be seen as a harmless debate, not a so called pot being stirred

[El Lobo]

Rani-May - amongst that handful of Tasmanian vets you know does one have a TV program?

[Rani-May]

Rani-May - amongst that handful of Tasmanian vets you know does one have a TV program?

Do you mean Harry Cooper or Bondi vet? Lol, no unfortunately not. There are only 2 vets that specialise in reptiles in my state. And the second one is 3 hours away, I just call around, they are usually very willing to help when its about reptiles considering they arent common pets here.

[El Lobo]

Rani-May - amongst that handful of Tasmanian vets you know does one have a TV program?

Do you mean Harry Cooper or Bondi vet? Lol, no unfortunately not. There are only 2 vets that specialise in reptiles in my state. And the second one is 3 hours away, I just call around, they are usually very willing to help when its about reptiles considering they arent common pets here.

I was just interested if you knew Harry and if you did ask you to pass on my regards to him. I have known him for more than thirty years, pre-celebrity days.

[Rani-May]

I was just interested if you knew Harry and if you did ask you to pass on my regards to him. I have known him for more than thirty years, pre-celebrity days.

Wow, i wish I knew him, use to watch his show all the time. Did you learn any techniques off him?

[El Lobo]

I took parrots to Harry and found him to be caring and knowledgeable, as with all vets who involve the carers you can always learn from them. I have found with vets they will take on-board your views if you present them respectfully; I've not told them their job because of something I've read on the internet, although my rabbit vet will always ask if I have found something new as he knows I frequent a board where a few of the top exotic vets in the UK post. He was appreciative recently when I directed him to a newly peer reviewed research paper implicating hyperglycaemia as an indicator for potential blockages of the GI tract.

Not too different from on this forum. There is nothing wrong with questioning all aspects of keeping BTS so long as you present support for your position. The current problem is inexperienced members disagreeing with the experienced keepers but not offering anything to back up their assertions, other than a veiled suggestion of research or some spurious connection to exotic vets. There are not that many scientific papers on BTS and most of them would have found their way onto this forum for discussion in the past.

[Rani-May]

I agree, I found this forum during research and noticed how knowledgeable the people were on here, thats why I joined.
And I actually never question anyones views or opinions,especially on here. Some of my views are quite different sometimes but I will definitely always listen to what they say and take it in and weigh up to decide what i think is right. I have even changed a couple things I do with my skinks since being on this forum, like for starters i use to feed more fruit than i do now. And My vet told me to feed less meal worms because they find them hard to digest, especially younger blueys, coming onto this websites confirmed it for me. So I've stopped feeding them to my skinks.

I have the up-most respect for breeders and keepers on this forum, and i definitely appreciate their opinions, findings, help etc. If I am ever concerned or questioning something to do with my blue tongues, this is the second place id go after calling my herp vet.

And I am very jealous that you know Harry Cooper, I'd badger him with a million questions if I ever met him

[Joey1983]

For what its worth.. I used natural instincts raw diet. My skink goes crazy for the venison formula. I even sprinkle calcum powder on it and add arugula shavings to it.

[Niels D]

At this side of the pond cat food contains less salt than dog food. That's why I'm using the first type of food, not as a staple though. I understand this is different in the US, or am I wrong? This forum contains a lot of BTS experts. I've learned most things I know about BTS here and I regret that I didn't sighn up 10 years ago.